How is this not fraud, or at least false advertising? If I'm paying money to chat with a specific sex worker how is it even legal to let some random dude in a third world country pretend to be the person I'm supposed to be talking to? I've never personally engaged in these types of systems, but I don't think there's a problem with them as long as they are run honestly. It sounds like Onlyfans is exploiting workers and their own customers.
It is fraud. However, one thing has become crystal clear lately is that laws are only as good as we have systems in place that are willing and able to enforce them.
And further, scamming people in the context of sex has always been easy because of the shame in admitting you fell for it.
Imagine filing a report that you spent thousands of dollars chatting with some random person, having the chat logs submitted as evidence, etc. it’s similar to why all types of sexual assault are rarely reported
> laws are only as good as we have systems in place that are willing and ABLE to enforce them.
The 'able' part is the critical insight. Laws are too often passed that really have no ability to be enforced, but end up adding bureaucratic processes that law abiding companies have to follow. This also implies that governments need to actively clean up existing laws, which almost never happens unless there is enough support to pass a new law to actively supplant the old one.
There is also that international problem. If an South American is frauded on an US American platform, by an east European using an African fake chatter: Which legislation, which court is applicable? Which oversight authority should handle this?
I don’t think this problem is that hard to solve, it just requires political will that doesn’t exist. The solution is to make it the platform’s problem. If the platform doesn’t want to deal with fraud, they don’t get to operate in that jurisdiction. Sue them into submission. If they don’t care about that geography, then there is now a gap in the market for a more local business to fill.
> I don’t think this problem is that hard to solve, it just requires political will that doesn’t exist
This is equivalent to saying "I don't think the problem is hard, it just requires an a simple solution that doesn't exist". Problems are hard problems specifically because simple easy solutions for them don't exist.
This was done by “mail order bride” companies like those in Russia and Ukraine, that charge per message or letter sent back and forth, using their platform that does not allow for contact information to be shared; you are not talking to Anastasia but “Hairy Boris”!
Later scams evolved to use prerecorded video clips etc. Which I assume is next for OF also.
It's no more fraud than any other "fan club" where you got letters and personal autographs and such from the celebrity but didn't realize it was all done by a hired staff of employees. It's been a thing for decades.
Someone paid to have a fantasy of sex, and they got that fantasy. If they don't like it, they don't do it again, and this is true whether it's "the model" or someone else. If they do like it, what's the issue?
This is like saying you paid for a celebrity plumber & a regular plumber did the work, but you're upset because you wanted the celebrity. "The job" got done one way or another. They're selling digital handjobs here, there's no need to be precious about it.
> How is this not fraud, or at least false advertising?
It may or may not be fraud or false advertising depending on the specific representations made in the particular case and the local fraud and false advertising statutes that apply in the case. So far, I think OF has been successfully in using their ToS to make the case that if it is any of those things, it is fraud or false advertising by the creator. But OF creators, even once you do the work to be able to sue them, are mostly not worth suing, and given the way chatters are more (though not uniquely) associated with creators being working with highly extractive agencies (who are nominally working for the creator, but functionally more like the reverse), that's probably particularly the case for those using chatters.
It is fraud. But these parties are protected by OnlyFans themselves. Similar to how dating apps promote (and actually lot of them enforce) fake accounts with fake pictures because it boosts everything - engagement and revenue. So they always turn a blind eye.
Last week, I used a dating app where they used a fake profile tailored specifically for me, using a married woman's photo. I deleted the app. Every app in this space is scummy and the people at the top running these are just trash. That's the real reason.
On the one hand, yes, on the other hand, personal touch doesn't scale. Webcam models maintain a personal touch by broadcasting their interactions with those who tip, but OF models can't do that. They have two options when their customer base grows too large:
Option one is to use these chatters.
Option two is to chat only with those who pay extra or with no one at all.
But then.. how is it any different from Amazon saying automated stores while a human is watching cameras or waymo having humans operate in some circumstances. If there are no rules, you can't expect corporates to govern themselves in a way that does not benefit them..
> It sounds like Onlyfans is exploiting workers and their own customers.
But this is the basic principle of capitalism. The company exploits workers (in order to obtain a net benefit from their work), and exploits customers (by selling the lowest-quality, most expensive product it can manage to). Companies that don't behave like that get out-competed by companies that do. This dynamic is the root of our economic system, as was very clearly explained by Adam Smith and Karl Marx two centuries ago (in slightly different tones of voice).
The particular case you mention is nothing special. The exact same thing happens for all the products that people buy. This is just the stable state of our (some would say "rotten", some would say "healthy") society.
It is blatant fraud and onlyfans should be suable for this. Fuck that whole company and all their bs pr management workers doing nothing getting rich on regarded male beta simp money.
It might be fraud, but it’s hard to drum up sympathy for internet perverts. Imagine a guy in his 50s believing an 18-year-old with thousands of followers is personally texting him. It’s pure delusion - like going to a strip club and thinking the girls are actually into you. There are no innocent victims on these sites, just losers looking to exploit someone. Maybe them getting exploited instead is just poetic justice.
Now this is almost entirely automated anyway, there is a big adult ecosystem here in Cyprus and i talk to a lot of people. No manual work is used there anymore, "chatters" are a thing of the past.
Now they are well on the path to automate OnlyFans models themselves, there are plenty of hybrid sites where known live models are attracted with good terms to bring in the users, and then slowly switched for AI ones, and it WORKS.
Adult industry is so competitive and fast-evolving because there are few deep moats, it shows the way for everyone else, in fact.
This is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to seedy OF behaviors. The goal of the most successful OF chatters and chatting is to develop parasocial romantic relationships with highly invested whales who then go into debt due to their obsession. Many fans do it hoping they'll one day be with the girl in real life (and this is insinuated and propagated by the chatting team). Fans will rack up credit card debt and in extreme cases, have been cited to take out loans or sell their possessions to continue purchasing. Overtime, such whales are tracked by the agency via advanced CRMs where they are then shuffled from account to account via shout outs on the model's accounts.
If you want to directly address this chatter's grievances, the going rate for most chatters is $3+/hour + commissions. I won't share links but this can be found via Telegram or Google. ~$500/mo base is pretty good for the Philippines when call centers make you work 6 days a week for the same price without commission.
Yeah I saw one of these online. An onlyfans performer was livestreaming on another platform, clearly not typing and at the same time chatted me up on onlyfans lol. Clearly it wasn't her herself. I kinda strung "her" on and she sent me some obvious stock pics saying "she" was out on the town.
I only pay genuine performers, some of whom I even know in person. I only subscribed to the above one because it was a free sub. But I was kinda appalled. First I thought it was a chatbot but it probably was a person like this.
For me the connection is a lot more important than the erotic content. But it's pretty easy to weed them out for now. Maybe this will change with better AI. I hope not.
Related: in Germany, there currently is a huge scandal surrounding the company "Fanblast", where you could purchase the supposed "whatsapp phone number" of various "celebrities" and, allegedly, the chats were also run by random freelancers [1].
> She would be set targets to earn the model hundreds of dollars worth of sales of pictures and videos during her shift.
So lets assume $300 per shift, so with an 8 hour shift, that would be about $37.50/hour of merchandise per hour. So the workers makes about 5.3%. Google says standard for sales workers paid on comission normally get 5-10%.
So its possible this is within what would be normal for a low end non-salary commision job, but it depends on what "hundreds" really mean. Of course i think normally for commision only sales jobs you move much more expensive product to make it worth your while.
Otoh they probably deserve a lot higher than normal sales commision given the nature of the job and all the stuff they undoubtedly have to put up with.
You’ll be shocked to see how many job postings for only fans chatters are up on Reddit when you search for them (several are posted every hour). Some ads are looking for 10-20 chatters at once.
But the people taking on these jobs are applying for them still. Somehow I find it hard to be sympathetic? Ok I get it the job opportunities in the Philippines aren’t great, but it’s not like you’re being forced to be an OF chatter; you can simply stop being one.
The sad thing about AI usage and the lack of jobs here in the poorer part of the world is that around the $6 mark per hour there would be literal queues of people forming to sign up for the job.
At about the $10-12 mark you'd be able to hire people with serious linguistic skills.
Average wages in the Phillipines are around $360/month USD, so $2/hr isn't too bad for an easy job. BBC is playing rage-bait arbitrage with that headline.
I do not see the point of OnlyFans. I just don't get why anyone would want to interact with anyone on this site or would believe it to be anything other than what it is. Just another platform to take advantage of lonely people and horny guys who cant get laid.
Isn’t $2/hour a pretty high salary in Philliphines?
This is skeezy (edit: fixing autocorrect’s sleepy), but then so is chatting with onlyfans models. It’s already a fake, paradoxical relationship and even that aspect is fake. It’s delusions on deceptions.
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And further, scamming people in the context of sex has always been easy because of the shame in admitting you fell for it.
Imagine filing a report that you spent thousands of dollars chatting with some random person, having the chat logs submitted as evidence, etc. it’s similar to why all types of sexual assault are rarely reported
> laws are only as good as we have systems in place that are willing and ABLE to enforce them.
The 'able' part is the critical insight. Laws are too often passed that really have no ability to be enforced, but end up adding bureaucratic processes that law abiding companies have to follow. This also implies that governments need to actively clean up existing laws, which almost never happens unless there is enough support to pass a new law to actively supplant the old one.
> I don’t think this problem is that hard to solve, it just requires political will that doesn’t exist
This is equivalent to saying "I don't think the problem is hard, it just requires an a simple solution that doesn't exist". Problems are hard problems specifically because simple easy solutions for them don't exist.
> because of the shame in admitting you fell for it.
I would argue that the reason has more to do with our utter inability to create common sense laws regarding anything "sex".
Later scams evolved to use prerecorded video clips etc. Which I assume is next for OF also.
[0] https://www.courtwatch.news/p/onlyfans-sued-after-two-guys-r...
[1] https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/court-throws-explosive-o...
This is like saying you paid for a celebrity plumber & a regular plumber did the work, but you're upset because you wanted the celebrity. "The job" got done one way or another. They're selling digital handjobs here, there's no need to be precious about it.
> How is this not fraud, or at least false advertising?
It may or may not be fraud or false advertising depending on the specific representations made in the particular case and the local fraud and false advertising statutes that apply in the case. So far, I think OF has been successfully in using their ToS to make the case that if it is any of those things, it is fraud or false advertising by the creator. But OF creators, even once you do the work to be able to sue them, are mostly not worth suing, and given the way chatters are more (though not uniquely) associated with creators being working with highly extractive agencies (who are nominally working for the creator, but functionally more like the reverse), that's probably particularly the case for those using chatters.
Last week, I used a dating app where they used a fake profile tailored specifically for me, using a married woman's photo. I deleted the app. Every app in this space is scummy and the people at the top running these are just trash. That's the real reason.
Option one is to use these chatters.
Option two is to chat only with those who pay extra or with no one at all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Internet,_nobody_knows_...
these people probably know they're not talking to the real model, but want someone to talk to.
someone insert Blaise Pascal quote
> It sounds like Onlyfans is exploiting workers and their own customers.
But this is the basic principle of capitalism. The company exploits workers (in order to obtain a net benefit from their work), and exploits customers (by selling the lowest-quality, most expensive product it can manage to). Companies that don't behave like that get out-competed by companies that do. This dynamic is the root of our economic system, as was very clearly explained by Adam Smith and Karl Marx two centuries ago (in slightly different tones of voice).
The particular case you mention is nothing special. The exact same thing happens for all the products that people buy. This is just the stable state of our (some would say "rotten", some would say "healthy") society.
Now they are well on the path to automate OnlyFans models themselves, there are plenty of hybrid sites where known live models are attracted with good terms to bring in the users, and then slowly switched for AI ones, and it WORKS.
Adult industry is so competitive and fast-evolving because there are few deep moats, it shows the way for everyone else, in fact.
If you want to directly address this chatter's grievances, the going rate for most chatters is $3+/hour + commissions. I won't share links but this can be found via Telegram or Google. ~$500/mo base is pretty good for the Philippines when call centers make you work 6 days a week for the same price without commission.
I only pay genuine performers, some of whom I even know in person. I only subscribed to the above one because it was a free sub. But I was kinda appalled. First I thought it was a chatbot but it probably was a person like this.
For me the connection is a lot more important than the erotic content. But it's pretty easy to weed them out for now. Maybe this will change with better AI. I hope not.
> OnlyFans, which generated $7.2bn (£5.3bn) revenue in 2024, ..
I didn't expect their revenue to be that high, but I suppose it's also unsurprising.
[1] https://www.comicschau.de/news/fanblast-aloa-me-klengan-krit...
> She would be set targets to earn the model hundreds of dollars worth of sales of pictures and videos during her shift.
So lets assume $300 per shift, so with an 8 hour shift, that would be about $37.50/hour of merchandise per hour. So the workers makes about 5.3%. Google says standard for sales workers paid on comission normally get 5-10%.
So its possible this is within what would be normal for a low end non-salary commision job, but it depends on what "hundreds" really mean. Of course i think normally for commision only sales jobs you move much more expensive product to make it worth your while.
Otoh they probably deserve a lot higher than normal sales commision given the nature of the job and all the stuff they undoubtedly have to put up with.
But the people taking on these jobs are applying for them still. Somehow I find it hard to be sympathetic? Ok I get it the job opportunities in the Philippines aren’t great, but it’s not like you’re being forced to be an OF chatter; you can simply stop being one.
1. AI chatbot 2. A reddit mod type guy
At about the $10-12 mark you'd be able to hire people with serious linguistic skills.
> The most popular creators on the platform claim to earn millions of dollars per month.
This has never made sense and I'm convinced these "creators" are a front for money laundering.
Holy mother of ... the feet business is booming.
I kind of regret studying 3 years of economics ... we studied the rational consumer maximising their utility. Is this what that looks like? (LOL)
If OF managements can't see what's coming, I think it's well deserved.
Hell, there are even cases of only fans models being entirely AI. photo, video and chat entirely made by ai.
I mean at this point you're better getting a chatgpt subscription, right ?
This is skeezy (edit: fixing autocorrect’s sleepy), but then so is chatting with onlyfans models. It’s already a fake, paradoxical relationship and even that aspect is fake. It’s delusions on deceptions.