Games with loot boxes to get minimum 16 age rating across Europe (bbc.com)

by gostsamo 202 comments 339 points
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202 comments

[−] hofrogs 63d ago
"Lootboxes", "cases", "packs" and other chance-based systems that involve spending real money or an in-game currency that could be obtained by spending real money should be banned completely, all of those systems exploit brain vulnerabilities for profit. Also, prediction markets, sports betting, online casinos, shitcoin exchanges.
[−] hx8 63d ago
It's interesting that your list skews entirely digital, and that more physical games of chance like lotteries and blackjack are not on the list. Do you see them as fundamentally different?
[−] furyofantares 63d ago
Here's a good read on the topic from Zvi Mowshowitz: https://thezvi.substack.com/p/the-online-sports-gambling-exp...

He was very much pro-legalizing online gambling. He had worked for sportsbooks, had done lots of sports betting himself, stuff like that. But has concluded that legalizing online gambling has been a disaster.

> When sports gambling was legalized in America, I was hopeful it too could prove a net positive force, far superior to the previous obnoxious wave of daily fantasy sports.

> It brings me no pleasure to conclude that this was not the case. The results are in. Legalized mobile gambling on sports, let alone casino games, has proven to be a huge mistake. The societal impacts are far worse than I expected.

The article makes a compelling argument that online gambling is a lot worse than other forms of gambling.

I have a take on this too. You know how scammers cast a really wide net, hoping to get lucky and find suckers? Well, that's really only part of the story, what actually happens is they get lucky and happen to find people when they are vulnerable. That's how smart people get scammed somewhat randomly.

When online gambling is in your pocket, it is guaranteed to be available when you're vulnerable.

[−] hofrogs 63d ago
Well I was thinking in the context of games, so the list is some of the stuff that you can waste unlimited amounts of real money on to get a chance for a shiny digital item. I do think that physical gambling is bad too, though it's not as easily accessible, you don't carry a (physical) roulette table in your pocket.
[−] hx8 63d ago
I agree that accessibility is a big aspect that makes these digital games of chance different than the physical counterparts.
[−] sjoedev 63d ago
I think online/digital gambling is worse because it follows you everywhere. I don’t like any form of gambling, but at least with casinos there’s some escape in not physically being there. It’s also harder to enforce age requirements online.
[−] tialaramex 63d ago
They all have apps these days, and just like a local bookmaker might "accidentally" remove your name from their legally required self-ban list it's very common that a "bug" in your phone app means you can keep gambling after saying you want to stop.

"Mistakes" in the controlling party's favour are extremely common in such industries. Fluke 100-1 sport betting win? Oops we forget to fill out that mandatory anti-fraud paperwork, bet is off. Lost that 3-2 bet that the favourite would place in a horse race but actually you didn't show proper ID? Sorry that's your problem, we're keeping the money

[−] Waterluvian 63d ago
Google keeps accidentally forgetting that I don’t want their fucking browser.
[−] tialaramex 63d ago
Regulating gambling is a good idea. Gambling firms spend a lot of money on (lobbying for) ensuring the regulations are as loose as possible despite the very obvious downsides of their industry.
[−] barnabee 63d ago
Not OP but I would certainly ban adding gambling "features" to other products or services. Either you can be a gambling or betting shop/platform (regulated and restricted to adults) or something else, but not both.
[−] heavenlyblue 62d ago
Pokemon cards, magic the gathering fits that too
[−] cwillu 63d ago
Card packs are not digital.
[−] canjobear 63d ago
Many locales ban physical gambling as well. It’s a defensible policy.
[−] estimator7292 63d ago
I think it's interesting that you're refusing to engage with the topic at hand and trying to distract with whataboutism.

You may be shocked and horrified to learn that two things can be bad at the same time, even if we only talk about one.

GP's comments trend digital because we're talking about digital games. GP is on-topic, you are trying to derail and delegetimize the conversation.

[−] Madmallard 63d ago
Instead they're getting worse yay! Hop on Kalshi
[−] create-username 63d ago
If you start banning everything that causes addiction, a market big enough to trade on the Nasdaq would collapse, vanish.
[−] chrisjj 63d ago
Brain vulnerabilities? So ban alcoholic drinks and thrill rides too?
[−] d0d00 63d ago
Watch how fast they use this to further the extent of mandatory age verification online. That's what they usually do (read: the Shock Doctrine from Naomi Klein). Problem arises, create legislation (likely reducing freedom or increasing surveillance), use said legislation down the line after everybody forgets about it to further whatever their agenda is.
[−] tasuki 63d ago
That's mild. I'd ban them outright.
[−] mikkupikku 64d ago
Do they let 16 year olds gamble in casinos in Europe? Odd to ban it for kids but only some kids.
[−] abbadadda 63d ago
Great. Now do Roblox. In the game "Steal a Brainrot" the kinds of things kids can spend money on in the game that's supposedly safe for seven-year-olds is disgusting. £29.99 for a "secret lucky block" - and that's BEFORE price discrimination. Literally wiring the brains of kids as early as possible to have a tendency/preference towards "random variance rewards." I am really pleased to see any government doing something about this and protecting kids from this disgusting, predatory, and exploitative behavior.

By all means game developers deserve to make a living... However, if they're going to operate a casino, they should be treated and licensed as such.

[−] hedora 64d ago
I wish they'd add mandatory labeling. I'm over 16 and have no interest in games with loot boxes.
[−] shevy-java 63d ago
I do understand the rationale; and I have known kids who were addicted to gaming. So I don't disagree that this kind of addiction-mechanism in games, is somewhat similar to e. g. casino gambling where some people get hooked up and may be unable to exit that addiction, leading to massive loss. People are different - some are very easy to addict. Others have strategies against that. My simple strategy was to never start gambling - and never pay for playing a game (aside from the initial purchase, but the last game I bought was in the 1990s; back then games were IMO better too, ignoring the graphics).

Having said that, though, when I also combine this news with the attempt to force operating systems into sniffing for my age at all times, I am still totally against this. This kind of over-eager bureaucracy is not good. It reminds me of attempts to prohibit alcohol. Yes, it is not the same, a loot box does not cause physical symptoms really, compared to alcohol or, say, harder drugs - but states seem too eager to want to restrict people. Or monitor them, such as in the case of "age verification". So now this legislation is another basis to support mandatory age sniffing of everyone. So I am completely against it now.

[−] nba456_ 64d ago
I never understood why video game lootboxes get regulated while real-life lootboxes like pokemon cards don't.
[−] rldjbpin 60d ago
to the dozens who use the rating system as a deciding factor for getting games for their kids, i suppose this will help.

meanwhile, one of the game that would have been affected by it, Counter-Strike 2, is already rated M by ESRB [1]. it is undergoing a major case in NY as we speak, and there are many professional players, also recognized by the devs, that openly stated they played the game since their early teens. [2]

it does mean that a lot of more suitable games for younger audience, such as the sports title released every year. but a lot of them already have free titles with pay-to-win mechanics. i wonder if the enforcement would really differ any more than it currently is.

[1] https://www.esrb.org/ratings/9406/counter-strike/

[2] https://www.hltv.org/player/19230/m0NESY

[−] yacin 64d ago
should probably just ban gambling for children but seems like a good first step.
[−] PeterStuer 63d ago
Tbh, pokemon cards were already banned over here in many primary school playgrounds 20 years ago. Not because of "gambling", but because rule disputes and outright theft started too many teen fisticuffs.
[−] erxam 64d ago
Okay? How will this actually change anything?

I don't think I have ever paid attention to a single age rating in my entire life. Does anyone do outside of fundamentalist parents who wouldn't let kids play most video games anyways?

Very spiritually European move.

What regulators should do is focus on easily applicable percentage-based fines. Make sure it's not just another line item.

[−] hsuduebc2 64d ago
Ok, so we all agreed that it is gambling. But for some reason we let kids gamble but only after they reach sixteen? This feels weird.