the people that work on Java & the JVM are very smart.
it has become a best of breed language - hell its better than Go for industry purposes.
the drawback with Java will always be the CULTURE - (maybe someone can insert a quote of how in physics progress is only made, when old physicist die - I don't wanna be morbid ) but with Java same that's when the culture will change.
All those people using typescript (could be using Java - but the culture doesn't want them and consider them heretics for not embracing religion of OOP and FactoryFactory)
I wonder if at we are standing looking at the smoking field of programming languages created over the last 50 years and gazing at the final survivors, of which Java is definitely one.
Why would anyone create a new language now? The existing ones are "good enough", and without a body of examples for LLMs to train on, a new language has little chance getting traction.
I learned IBM /360 assembler when I started in computers a long time ago. I haven't seen a line of assembler in many decades, but I'm sure it's a viable language still if you need it.
Java has won (alongside many other winners of course), now the AI drawbridge is being raised to stop new entrants and my pick is that Java will still be here in 50 years time, it's just no humans will be creating it.
I'm writing my own programming language right now... which is for an intensely narrow use case, I'm building a testbed for comparing floating-point implementations without messy language semantics getting in the way.
There's lots of reasons to write your own programming language, especially since if you don't care about it actually displacing existing languages.
Most of my 20 years of experience is Java. Now 3 years into a new job mostly using Python to build microservices. I feel much more productive using Python (plus uv, ruff and mypy for fast repeatable package management, linting and type checking). I see Python having a trajectory to keep improving and gaining more adoption - eg Python keeps growing in popularity https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2025/technology/. It will have real threads soon and better type checking with ty (thanks to astral who also make uv and ruff). Python gives an incredibly tight integration loop since you don’t wait on compiling. Our kotlin projects are always at least 2x slower for ci/cd builds. I like typescript, but working with it in IntelliJ is incredibly slow.
> Why would anyone create a new language now? The existing ones are "good enough", and without a body of examples for LLMs to train on, a new language has little chance getting traction.
Compiler writing can be an art form and not all art is for mass consumption.
> Java has won (alongside many other winners of course), now the AI drawbridge is being raised to stop new entrants and my pick is that Java will still be here in 50 years time, it's just no humans will be creating it.
This makes no sense to me. If AI possesses intelligence then it should have no problem learning how to use a new language. If it doesn't possess intelligence, we shouldn't be outsourcing all of our programming to it.
Intelligence is not a well understood concept. "AI" is also not a well understood concept - we have LLMs that can pick up some novel patterns on "first sight", but then that pattern takes up space in the context window and this kind of learning is quite limited.
Training LLMs on the other hand requires a large amount of training data.
> This makes no sense to me. If AI possesses intelligence then it should have no problem learning how to use a new language. If it doesn't possess intelligence, we shouldn't be outsourcing all of our programming to it.
Perfection. You have made such an excellent. However, I don't want to detract from that but it's like, in reality, this is a completely obvious point but because of this AI/LLM brain-rot that has taken over the software programmer community, writ large, this is particularly insightful. It's also just a sad and unimaginative state we are in to think that no more programming languages will ever be needed other than what currently exists in March 2026 because of LLMs.
What advantage do old languages have that can’t be overcome or at least reduced to insignificance?
The 50-year head start in training data, runtime, and ecosystem? That may not be much, because LLMs are rapidly accelerating software development. LLMs can also generalize: take what they learned for one language and apply it to a “similar” language (and I think most modern languages are similar enough for broad effective translation: all have records/unions, objects, functions, types, control-flow, exceptions, and more). Some fairly recent languages (e.g. Rust, Swift) already have comparable runtimes and ecosystems to older ones, from human-driven development acceleration and concept generalization.
In a recent study, LLMs solved the most exercises in Elixir (https://autocodebench.github.io Table 4). Anecdotally, I’ve heard others say that LLMs code best in Rust, and (for UI) Swift. More importantly, I don’t see an older language advantage that is widening from LLM use; an older language probably is better for most use cases today, but any written code can be translated or regenerated into a newer one.
Programmers would create a new language when there is a fundamental change in hardware architecture such that the assumptions underlying the old programming languages no longer apply. Java is probably a poor choice for writing software in which most computation happens on GPUs. But I agree that someone (or something) will still be using Java to write new line-of-business applications in 50 years.
Same reason you'd ever create a new language — to start anew, breaking free from the shackles of backwards compatibility of the old language, having learned the lessons of the past.
The AI angle makes even less sense — surely we will want to create languages that
are tailored for them.
And Java has some advantages that are hard to beat. It performs better than Go and builds just as fast (at least when not using some popular build tools) while offering unmatched deep, low-overhead observability.
People might think they may enjoy another language more, but the portion of people who eventually come to regret choosing Java is probably lower than that of any other language.
I write TypeScript daily and honestly it is not about being scared of Java. The ecosystem just makes more sense if you are already building for the web. You write your frontend in JS/TS, your backend in the same language, your build tools understand it natively, and you share types between client and server. That is a hard thing to replicate in Java even if the language itself is technically better in some areas. The barrier is not cultural fear, it is practical convenience.
> hell its better than Go for industry purposes. [...] the drawback with Java will always be the CULTURE
The industry purpose for Go is that all codebases look more or less the same, so workers can jump into any project they've never seen before and instantly feel like they wrote it themselves. Google talked about that a lot around the time Go was released. It is why they created it instead of just adopting Haskell or something.
Some of that simply comes down to the language not allowing much creativity, but without the culture developers would still find a way to mess with outcomes. You can still write crazy Go code if you want to. The culture is the piece that matters. If Java doesn't have the culture, how does it fit in industry?
> All those people using typescript (could be using Java - but the culture doesn't want them and consider them heretics for not embracing religion of OOP and FactoryFactory)
I assume you're specifically talking about the backend and not suggesting that people write Applets or use GWT or something.
The problem is that many jobs with Java (that I've found) lean so heavily towards OOP that it's part of the job description. I just don't enjoy OOP and find that there's almost always a simpler approach, and to have it prescribed as part of the engineering culture will always steer me away.
I think astronomers could measure the age of the universe in nano-Valhallas. Every year, it feels 50% closer to completion...
In all seriousness I'm happy with what Mr. Goetz and the team have done. Sealed interfaces (java 17) + exhaustive switch statements (java 21) means we now have union types in java! And instead of jumping on the async/await bandwagon we now have a more general solution that doesn't lead to API duplication (virtual threads). But Valhalla has been a veeery long time coming.
Glad to see this being removed. Java plugins especially on Linux were awful and required by tons of corporate stuff. Anyone remeber IcedTea Web? A functional and opensource Java plugin and Java Webstart implementation?
I was pretty surprised when I learned recently that the Java alternative for green threads doesn't use colored functions. It put Java in a higher place in my perception.
As someone who has been out of the Java world for many years, but recently forced back into it due to Android dev requirements, Post lawsuit, what is the relationship between Android (Google) and Java now? When can we expect 26 on Android? On that note, why is Android always so far behind? Is it because Kotlin is primary or is it deeper? Did the lawsuit play a role?
All the changes look great. But I don't know how I feel about the syntax. A lot of things that very well could be first-class just aren't. Instead of a lazy keyword, we get LazyConstant.
I'm sure there's reasons as to why. I just don't know them.
I think Java became popular because of Sun. My experience with Java-based apps is bad. Laggy, resource-heavy, IDE bound, and it causes premature hardware performance degradation.
339 comments
it has become a best of breed language - hell its better than Go for industry purposes.
the drawback with Java will always be the CULTURE - (maybe someone can insert a quote of how in physics progress is only made, when old physicist die - I don't wanna be morbid ) but with Java same that's when the culture will change.
All those people using typescript (could be using Java - but the culture doesn't want them and consider them heretics for not embracing religion of OOP and FactoryFactory)
Why would anyone create a new language now? The existing ones are "good enough", and without a body of examples for LLMs to train on, a new language has little chance getting traction.
I learned IBM /360 assembler when I started in computers a long time ago. I haven't seen a line of assembler in many decades, but I'm sure it's a viable language still if you need it.
Java has won (alongside many other winners of course), now the AI drawbridge is being raised to stop new entrants and my pick is that Java will still be here in 50 years time, it's just no humans will be creating it.
> Why would anyone create a new language now?
I'm writing my own programming language right now... which is for an intensely narrow use case, I'm building a testbed for comparing floating-point implementations without messy language semantics getting in the way.
There's lots of reasons to write your own programming language, especially since if you don't care about it actually displacing existing languages.
> Why would anyone create a new language now? The existing ones are "good enough", and without a body of examples for LLMs to train on, a new language has little chance getting traction.
Compiler writing can be an art form and not all art is for mass consumption.
> Java has won (alongside many other winners of course), now the AI drawbridge is being raised to stop new entrants and my pick is that Java will still be here in 50 years time, it's just no humans will be creating it.
This makes no sense to me. If AI possesses intelligence then it should have no problem learning how to use a new language. If it doesn't possess intelligence, we shouldn't be outsourcing all of our programming to it.
Training LLMs on the other hand requires a large amount of training data.
> This makes no sense to me. If AI possesses intelligence then it should have no problem learning how to use a new language. If it doesn't possess intelligence, we shouldn't be outsourcing all of our programming to it.
Perfection. You have made such an excellent. However, I don't want to detract from that but it's like, in reality, this is a completely obvious point but because of this AI/LLM brain-rot that has taken over the software programmer community, writ large, this is particularly insightful. It's also just a sad and unimaginative state we are in to think that no more programming languages will ever be needed other than what currently exists in March 2026 because of LLMs.
> this is a completely obvious point but because of this AI/LLM brain-rot that has taken over the software programmer community
This is really insulting. I think you're wrong, AI agent programming is very good now, and you will have to admit it at some point.
The 50-year head start in training data, runtime, and ecosystem? That may not be much, because LLMs are rapidly accelerating software development. LLMs can also generalize: take what they learned for one language and apply it to a “similar” language (and I think most modern languages are similar enough for broad effective translation: all have records/unions, objects, functions, types, control-flow, exceptions, and more). Some fairly recent languages (e.g. Rust, Swift) already have comparable runtimes and ecosystems to older ones, from human-driven development acceleration and concept generalization.
In a recent study, LLMs solved the most exercises in Elixir (https://autocodebench.github.io Table 4). Anecdotally, I’ve heard others say that LLMs code best in Rust, and (for UI) Swift. More importantly, I don’t see an older language advantage that is widening from LLM use; an older language probably is better for most use cases today, but any written code can be translated or regenerated into a newer one.
> Why would anyone create a new language now?
Same reason you'd ever create a new language — to start anew, breaking free from the shackles of backwards compatibility of the old language, having learned the lessons of the past.
The AI angle makes even less sense — surely we will want to create languages that are tailored for them.
The vast majority of programming languages ever created never aspired to win and I don't think that's going to change now.
People might think they may enjoy another language more, but the portion of people who eventually come to regret choosing Java is probably lower than that of any other language.
The industry purpose for Go is that all codebases look more or less the same, so workers can jump into any project they've never seen before and instantly feel like they wrote it themselves. Google talked about that a lot around the time Go was released. It is why they created it instead of just adopting Haskell or something.
Some of that simply comes down to the language not allowing much creativity, but without the culture developers would still find a way to mess with outcomes. You can still write crazy Go code if you want to. The culture is the piece that matters. If Java doesn't have the culture, how does it fit in industry?
> It has become a best of breed language
To me it lags significantly behind .net (runtime) and C#/F# (language). I don't see Java catching-up.
> All those people using typescript (could be using Java - but the culture doesn't want them and consider them heretics for not embracing religion of OOP and FactoryFactory)
I assume you're specifically talking about the backend and not suggesting that people write Applets or use GWT or something.
In all seriousness I'm happy with what Mr. Goetz and the team have done. Sealed interfaces (java 17) + exhaustive switch statements (java 21) means we now have union types in java! And instead of jumping on the async/await bandwagon we now have a more general solution that doesn't lead to API duplication (virtual threads). But Valhalla has been a veeery long time coming.
Glad to see this being removed. Java plugins especially on Linux were awful and required by tons of corporate stuff. Anyone remeber IcedTea Web? A functional and opensource Java plugin and Java Webstart implementation?
lazykeyword, we getLazyConstant.I'm sure there's reasons as to why. I just don't know them.
> My hope is that the first JEPs out of Project Valhalla will be announced later this year
I have heard about Valhalla at least around release of Java 8. That said that site is a solid description of other current and upcoming JEPs.