As a foreigner living in Finland, people here don't necessarily have more, but they behave like the proverbial fisherman.
An ambitious CEO moves to a small coastal town, living right on the beach to "optimize his lifestyle." Every evening, he sees a local fisherman sitting on his deck, playing guitar and watching the sunset with his family.
After a week, the CEO approaches the fisherman and says, "You know, if you spent less time playing guitar and more time fishing, you could buy a second boat."
The fisherman asks, "Why would I do that?"
"To catch more fish, sell them, and buy a whole fleet! Then you'd be rich," says the CEO.
"And then?" asks the fisherman.
"Then you could retire, move to a quiet beach, and play guitar all evening!"
The fisherman smiles and says, "What do you think I'm doing right now, while you're trying to figure out the ROI on my hobby?"
"14 1 Now, there was a certain Cineas, a man of Thessaly, with a reputation for great wisdom, who had been a pupil of Demosthenes the orator, and was quite the only public speaker of his day who was thought to remind his hearers, as a statue might, of that great orator's power and ability. Associating p387 himself with Pyrrhus, and sent by him as ambassador to the cities, he confirmed the saying of Euripides, to wit, "all can be won by eloquence
That even the sword of warring enemies might gain."
2 At any rate, Pyrrhus used to say that more cities had been won for him by the eloquence of Cineas than by his own arms; and he continued to hold Cineas in especial honour and to demand his services. It was this Cineas, then, who, seeing that Pyrrhus was eagerly preparing an expedition at this time to Italy, and finding him at leisure for the moment, drew him into the following discourse. "The Romans, O Pyrrhus, are said to be good fighters, and to be rulers of many warlike nations; if, then, Heaven should permit us to conquer these men, how should we use our victory?" 3 And Pyrrhus said: "Thy question, O Cineas, really needs no answer; the Romans once conquered, there is neither barbarian nor Greek city there which is a match for us, but we shall at once possess all Italy, the great size and richness and importance of which no man should know better than thyself." After a little pause, then, Cineas said: "And after taking Italy, O King, what are we to do?" 4 And Pyrrhus, not yet perceiving his intention, replied: "Sicily is near, and holds out her hands to us, an island abounding in wealth and men, and very easy to capture, for all is faction there, her cities have no government, and demagogues are rampant now that Agathocles is gone." "What thou sayest," replied Cineas, "is probably true; but will our expedition stop with the taking of Sicily?" 5 "Heaven grant us," said Pyrrhus, p389 "victory and success so far; and we will make these contests but the preliminaries of great enterprises. For who could keep his hands off Libya, or Carthage, when that city got within his reach, a city which Agathocles, slipping stealthily out of Syracuse and crossing the sea with a few ships, narrowly missed taking? And when we have become masters here, no one of the enemies who now treat us with scorn will offer further resistance; there is no need of saying that." 6 "None whatever," said Cineas, "for it is plain that with so great a power we shall be able to recover Macedonia and rule Greece securely. But when we have got everything subject to us, what are we going to do?" Then Pyrrhus smiled upon him and said: "We shall be much at ease, and we'll drink bumpers, my good man, every day, and we'll gladden one another's hearts with confidential talks." 7 And now that Cineas had brought Pyrrhus to this point in the argument, he said: "Then what stands in our way now if we want to drink bumpers and while away the time with one another? Surely this privilege is ours already, and we have at hand, without taking any trouble, those things to which we hope to attain by bloodshed and great toils and perils, after doing much harm to others and suffering much ourselves."
8 By this reasoning of Cineas Pyrrhus was more troubled than he was converted; he saw plainly what great happiness he was leaving behind him, but was unable to renounce his hopes of what he eagerly desired." https://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/e/roman/texts/plutarch/...
> ... but was unable to renounce his hopes of what he eagerly desired. (Power)
Yeah that last bit is key. As MLK said, injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. You can't just sit at the beach, because humans are hungry animals and you're probably somewhere in that chain (Rome → Italy → Sicily → Carthage → Greece).
OK, but now that we're in this comfortable position that puts us at liberty to chat with friends and family and drink huge amounts of booze on a beach, what is it all for? What are we going to do next? Invade Italy maybe for instance?
The abstract: “ It is proposed that happiness be classified as a psychiatric disorder and be included in future editions of the major diagnostic manuals under the new name: major affective disorder, pleasant type. In a review of the relevant literature it is shown that happiness is statistically abnormal, consists of a discrete cluster of symptoms, is associated with a range of cognitive abnormalities, and probably reflects the abnormal functioning of the central nervous system. One possible objection to this proposal remains--that happiness is not negatively valued. However, this objection is dismissed as scientifically irrelevant.”
I guess a Buddhist point of view would be that any emotion/feeling should not be held on to. (It is best to feel and let all things pass, I think, but to consider it a disorder to "hold on" to happiness doesn't seem right...I am not well-read enough about it to know if it can in fact cause suffering)
Yes. The argument is something like at some point in the future the conditions causing the happiness will be gone (probably quite soon, happiness is fleeting) and so will the feeling. If that transition away from happiness upsets you then it will cause suffering so you shouldn't cling to it.
There's a related sutta (MN87) with some dicussion about how love, which is generally an even more pleasent feeling than happiness, causes suffering if clung to because we are all inevitably separated from our loved ones.
I have a feeling our collective leg is being pulled:
"The behavioural components of happiness are less easily characterised but particular facial expressions such as 'smiling' have been noted"
"Certainly, if television soap operas in any way reflect real life, happiness is a very rare phenomenon indeed in places as far apart as Manchester, the East End of London and Australia. Interestingly, despite all the uncertainty about the epidemiology of happiness, there is some evidence that it is unevenly distributed
amongst the social classes: individuals in the higher socio-economic groupings generally report greater positive affect which may reflect the fact that they
are more frequently exposed to environmental risk factors for happiness."
FYI: This world happiness report is entirely based on asking just one obtuse question, which does not even have the word happiness in the actual question:
Please imagine a ladder with steps numbered from 0 at the bottom to 10 at the top. The top of the ladder represents the best possible life for you and the bottom of the ladder represents the worst possible life for you. On which step of the ladder would you say you personally feel you stand at this time?
Pretty good question I would say. It’s rating your life on a scale of 1 to 10. That being said it doesn’t gauge actual happiness. For instance the Nordic countries have very high levels of depression with a third of the some countries being on antidepressants. As a whole I would say on a day to day basis people are much more ebullient and happy seeming in a lot of other places like the Mediterranean. I would wager that this doesn’t capture the percentage of time people are “happy”.
It looks to me that this refers to a 272 page PDF report [0] on the theme "Happiness and Social Media" and the Executive summary explains that it is about much more than that simple question.
Canada here. Feels like we're barely hanging on to rung 5 or 6 and about to fall to the bottom.
Quantifiable example: most recent jobs report we lost 100k+ full time jobs. Biggest job less since COVID. Or the fact our increase in GDP per capita is the (second?) worst in the OECD in the last 10 years. Worse than Japan, Italy, the UK and all the other laggards...
Doesn't that almost imply the happiest countries in the world have a lack of imagination on what could be better? Or maybe they don't suffer from comparison (the thief of joy) as a culture.
I mean.. even if I was a bit worse off financially, if the leadership in the country was even borderline normal, I would give a much higher rating than currently.
I think social media is being wrongly made in to a scapegoat
Rather, social media mis-use is a symptom of young people having a lack of things like "third spaces" to go to to socialize at, of not having meaningful work or volunteer opportunities, of lacking certain other things that may have existed in the past.
Social media offers a new engaging experiment that fills the void of some of these things that don't exist elsewhere otherwise but doesn't act as an equivalent replacement
> On average, heavy social media use (more than five hours per day) is associated with lower wellbeing. Heavy users are significantly more likely to report higher stress and depressive symptoms, and believe they are worse off than their parents, compared with non- or moderate users.
I like this framing of social media use in the same terms as drug use. There are significant risks to this activity that so many people are ambivalent toward. Depression is not a condition you want to have, and here's this activity that causes it (or at least significantly contributes to it). And yet, so many persist!
If you only followed my country's subreddit (New Zealand) you would believe we live in hell, it's the most miserable time in our nation's history and nobody has a future here. Of course this doesn't resonate at all with my own personal experience in my life. We rank 11th, unchanged year on year.
It’s interesting to see a country’s internal rank of its own happiness against how I would rank them using my worldview.
Israel for example seems like a place that would be fairly unhappy right now given world events, but they rank quite highly.
Saudi Arabia also sticks out as unexpected. It seems in the media I hear about their government being quite oppressive (especially against women), so seeing them just above the US is surprising.
Speak to anyone in China and they're less happy this year because the economy is heavily depressed. This is not reflected in the chart. COVID doesn't even appear on most countries' charts despite huge impact globally. I am very skeptical of their process if it results in such questionable macro-narratives. I wonder if their interviewees are "business owners capable of answering the phone in English" or some similarly skewed dataset.
If you happen to be based in the capital of the happiest country in the world and want to be even happier, we have a Hacker News meetup: http://bit.ly/helsinkihn
Considering the state of The Netherlands over the last two decades, I can't help but feel this report is straight up bullshit. The only way I can see The Netherlands rank this high is by only asking two people and some sheep in the middle of nowhere.
107 comments
An ambitious CEO moves to a small coastal town, living right on the beach to "optimize his lifestyle." Every evening, he sees a local fisherman sitting on his deck, playing guitar and watching the sunset with his family.
After a week, the CEO approaches the fisherman and says, "You know, if you spent less time playing guitar and more time fishing, you could buy a second boat."
The fisherman asks, "Why would I do that?"
"To catch more fish, sell them, and buy a whole fleet! Then you'd be rich," says the CEO.
"And then?" asks the fisherman.
"Then you could retire, move to a quiet beach, and play guitar all evening!"
The fisherman smiles and says, "What do you think I'm doing right now, while you're trying to figure out the ROI on my hobby?"
That even the sword of warring enemies might gain."
2 At any rate, Pyrrhus used to say that more cities had been won for him by the eloquence of Cineas than by his own arms; and he continued to hold Cineas in especial honour and to demand his services. It was this Cineas, then, who, seeing that Pyrrhus was eagerly preparing an expedition at this time to Italy, and finding him at leisure for the moment, drew him into the following discourse. "The Romans, O Pyrrhus, are said to be good fighters, and to be rulers of many warlike nations; if, then, Heaven should permit us to conquer these men, how should we use our victory?" 3 And Pyrrhus said: "Thy question, O Cineas, really needs no answer; the Romans once conquered, there is neither barbarian nor Greek city there which is a match for us, but we shall at once possess all Italy, the great size and richness and importance of which no man should know better than thyself." After a little pause, then, Cineas said: "And after taking Italy, O King, what are we to do?" 4 And Pyrrhus, not yet perceiving his intention, replied: "Sicily is near, and holds out her hands to us, an island abounding in wealth and men, and very easy to capture, for all is faction there, her cities have no government, and demagogues are rampant now that Agathocles is gone." "What thou sayest," replied Cineas, "is probably true; but will our expedition stop with the taking of Sicily?" 5 "Heaven grant us," said Pyrrhus, p389 "victory and success so far; and we will make these contests but the preliminaries of great enterprises. For who could keep his hands off Libya, or Carthage, when that city got within his reach, a city which Agathocles, slipping stealthily out of Syracuse and crossing the sea with a few ships, narrowly missed taking? And when we have become masters here, no one of the enemies who now treat us with scorn will offer further resistance; there is no need of saying that." 6 "None whatever," said Cineas, "for it is plain that with so great a power we shall be able to recover Macedonia and rule Greece securely. But when we have got everything subject to us, what are we going to do?" Then Pyrrhus smiled upon him and said: "We shall be much at ease, and we'll drink bumpers, my good man, every day, and we'll gladden one another's hearts with confidential talks." 7 And now that Cineas had brought Pyrrhus to this point in the argument, he said: "Then what stands in our way now if we want to drink bumpers and while away the time with one another? Surely this privilege is ours already, and we have at hand, without taking any trouble, those things to which we hope to attain by bloodshed and great toils and perils, after doing much harm to others and suffering much ourselves."
8 By this reasoning of Cineas Pyrrhus was more troubled than he was converted; he saw plainly what great happiness he was leaving behind him, but was unable to renounce his hopes of what he eagerly desired." https://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/e/roman/texts/plutarch/...
Yeah that last bit is key. As MLK said, injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. You can't just sit at the beach, because humans are hungry animals and you're probably somewhere in that chain (Rome → Italy → Sicily → Carthage → Greece).
If you want peace, prepare for peace.
* https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1376114/ (1992)
The abstract: “ It is proposed that happiness be classified as a psychiatric disorder and be included in future editions of the major diagnostic manuals under the new name: major affective disorder, pleasant type. In a review of the relevant literature it is shown that happiness is statistically abnormal, consists of a discrete cluster of symptoms, is associated with a range of cognitive abnormalities, and probably reflects the abnormal functioning of the central nervous system. One possible objection to this proposal remains--that happiness is not negatively valued. However, this objection is dismissed as scientifically irrelevant.”
There's a related sutta (MN87) with some dicussion about how love, which is generally an even more pleasent feeling than happiness, causes suffering if clung to because we are all inevitably separated from our loved ones.
"The behavioural components of happiness are less easily characterised but particular facial expressions such as 'smiling' have been noted"
"Certainly, if television soap operas in any way reflect real life, happiness is a very rare phenomenon indeed in places as far apart as Manchester, the East End of London and Australia. Interestingly, despite all the uncertainty about the epidemiology of happiness, there is some evidence that it is unevenly distributed amongst the social classes: individuals in the higher socio-economic groupings generally report greater positive affect which may reflect the fact that they are more frequently exposed to environmental risk factors for happiness."
...pretty hilarious if you ask me :)
Please imagine a ladder with steps numbered from 0 at the bottom to 10 at the top. The top of the ladder represents the best possible life for you and the bottom of the ladder represents the worst possible life for you. On which step of the ladder would you say you personally feel you stand at this time?
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg1--c2r8HE
They link to their sources:
* https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vFO-3Sq5-rorCWBIKwuR-Spk...
Specifically the Cantril Self-Anchoring Striving Scale ("Cantril Ladder") is used:
* https://www.sciotoanalysis.com/news/2024/2/9/what-is-cantril...
* https://news.gallup.com/poll/122453/understanding-gallup-use...
It's been around since 1965, so it's presumably been studied a lot and the pros and cons of it explored in the literature.
[0] https://files.worldhappiness.report/WHR26.pdf
The ladder metaphor isn't the worst.
Quantifiable example: most recent jobs report we lost 100k+ full time jobs. Biggest job less since COVID. Or the fact our increase in GDP per capita is the (second?) worst in the OECD in the last 10 years. Worse than Japan, Italy, the UK and all the other laggards...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index
Rather, social media mis-use is a symptom of young people having a lack of things like "third spaces" to go to to socialize at, of not having meaningful work or volunteer opportunities, of lacking certain other things that may have existed in the past.
Social media offers a new engaging experiment that fills the void of some of these things that don't exist elsewhere otherwise but doesn't act as an equivalent replacement
> On average, heavy social media use (more than five hours per day) is associated with lower wellbeing. Heavy users are significantly more likely to report higher stress and depressive symptoms, and believe they are worse off than their parents, compared with non- or moderate users.
I like this framing of social media use in the same terms as drug use. There are significant risks to this activity that so many people are ambivalent toward. Depression is not a condition you want to have, and here's this activity that causes it (or at least significantly contributes to it). And yet, so many persist!
Israel for example seems like a place that would be fairly unhappy right now given world events, but they rank quite highly.
Saudi Arabia also sticks out as unexpected. It seems in the media I hear about their government being quite oppressive (especially against women), so seeing them just above the US is surprising.
Not using any VPN or proxy, no CF DNS, nothing like that.