More of a digital copy scenario. The article says the process involves toxic chemicals that lock everything in place so the connectome can be examined. There's no known way to reverse the chemical process in the biological brain.
Not that I think this is anywhere close in actuality, but It's reminding me of MMAcevedo. (https://qntm.org/mmacevedo)
What server will I wake up on? Who is running the infrastructure? What will be asked of me to be allowed to continue to exist on that server? Given our current societal trends, I can't imagine I would enjoy any existence where a copy of me is spun back up.
And of course, my original thread of consciousness will still be ended, so this is some alternate copy of me. (Based on my view of the teletransportation paradox.)
The worse part is you can't know that your current life isn't one of those. Everything that you think of as perks of being alive could be part of the protocol to keep you cooperative.
Scott Aaronson wrote a bit about the following thought [0]. If copying a brain and simulating reality ala The Matrix is possible at all, then if you get your brain copied you live one biological live but your copies have an unbounded number of existences (millions? billions? trillions?)
So, if copying brains is possible, and you don't know which version of you you are, you might have odds of, say, 1 to 1 trillion to be living your first, biological live.
Which is to say, if copying brains is possible, you are likely to be running in a simulation already.
[0] there's multiple links and I can't find where I first read, but I found this one from 2024, https://scottaaronson.blog/?p=7774 and uhh.. turns out the argument isn't from him personally (and he doesn't even believe on it), and is best presented here https://simulation-argument.com/ (though it's presented very differently so idk)
the important thing is for you to think you have the options, and that when you do them, you get the whole benefits and the simulation pays the whole cost. they could easily put precalculated memories in your address space and save the compute.
You will not wake up on any server. At best possible theoretical far future scenario better or worse copy of yours will. If you would survive such process, you yourself, the human instance that wrote that will be just looking at somebody else living their now-fully-digital (prison) life.
I don't understand why people don't get this simple fact. We are all gonna die, make inner peace with that (it isn't that hard, depends mostly on your ego) and enjoy rest of that short time here. If you seek immortality, do it either via exceptional deeds or via well-raised children, that's the best we have.
No force in the world is going to move both your mortal neurons with all synapses and electric charge between them that together form your personality into anything else, digital or not. Its like asking to transfer this cup of tea I hold right now into digital form. No, it can be copied to certain precision and that's it.
I don't understand why people don't get this simple fact.
Some people think identity and the continuity of consciousness are based on information or computation, and not on specific physical matter or soul-like constructs, so for them a transfer of all relevant information would constitute a transfer of consciousness and identity. From this perspective (leaving aside questions of practicality) "you yourself looking from the biological body at somebody else in the computer" is exactly as valid as "you yourself looking from inside the computer at somebody else in the biological body" (and in fact the whole idea that you have to choose one or the other as "the real you" becomes moot on this view).
Of course it's a difficult metaphysical conundrum but to say that your view of things is "a simple fact" when the basic scientific materialist worldview of today points at least as much in the opposite direction is a bit overconfident.
Anesthesia impairs the electrons transport in your brain, effectively ending that thread of consciousness, and, depending on the procedure, your brain can be altered by chemical/oxygen saturation changes. You wake up very subtly different, but most people are ok with that.
People have strokes or accidents and wake up missing memories and with changed bodies, but their families still call them by name.
You still being you is a matter of degree, not a binary, and different people are comfortable with different degrees of change.
I highly recommend playing Frictonal Games' Soma from 2015. It is an extremely critical examination of this entire concept. Without spoiling the plot, a digitized consciousness doesn't imply just one, but an infinite number of copies, some just subjected to torture as they are essentially disposable.
Does the thread of you your consciousness end when you go to sleep?
Does the thread of someone elses consciousness ends when they experience grand mal seizure and thrir electrical brain activity goes wrong all at once and then resets?
How's "waking up" in the virtual different from waking up from grand mal seizure? (assuming that all relevant biochemical data of neurons was read correcly and their behavior is simulated correctly)
> What will be asked of me to be allowed to continue to exist on that server?
I can't imagine anything of value that you could offer at that point, when artificial intelligence has become so powerful. Any knowledge you have would have been outdated and any intellectual ability would have been surpassed already.
While the connections are important I think the individual cell behavior is also very important and that is driven by DNA. Brain cells last a lifetime and can modify their own DNA so each one ends up being unique. I do wonder how much of behavior/consciousness is encoded in the cells DNA versus the connections between the cells.
Here's a thought experiment. I offer you the chance to be put in a medically induced coma and shipped around the world to strangers you know nothing about. You don't know what economic, political, or moral system you'll awaken to. The only thing you know for sure is they, for some reason we're interested in receiving an unconscious person, no questions asked.
Do you take the deal? Do you sign your family up for it?
Recently rewatched Demolition Man (1993) where criminals are frozen in cryostasis and then reanimated – a very prescient film. All I could think of was Demolition Pig
Probably a good first step in life extension, I know a lot of first peeks at this came from hypothermic people. Those lessons are now used in heart surgeries to slow metabolism and limit cell deaths.
Why on earth? It seems to me that the brain itself is the very disease they're trying to preserve here. Not to mention that, as usual, only certain super-rich people could probably afford it—which, to me, seems like one of the worst and most incurable "diseases" there is. Just my humble opinion, coming from my broken brain ;-)
Absolutely not sounds like a be careful what you wish for Black Mirror episode where you wake up trapped in some simulation you can’t break free from but it’s ok because you signed on the dotted line to donate your mind and body to science.
When I see things like this, it reminds that the saying life imitates art is surprisingly true. This is basically the premise of the movie Transcendence to a certain extent. Very interesting and very cool but begs the question just because we can, does it mean we should?
That being said, ever since I found out about Colossal Bioscience and their de-extinction projects, I have been tuned into their progress with great interest because it is the real life Jurassic Park.
One by one your neurons are replaced by their digital counterpart as a nano-scale computer in-place, with equivalent functionality. After which neuron number are you no longer you? You remain conscious throughout the process, the process may last however long with pauses for sleep.
After the replacement is complete, one by one these neurons are switched off with their functionality offloaded to their clone instantiated in a computer. After which neuron number are you no longer you?
This mind upload thought experiment convinced me that as long as there are no sharp discontinuities in experience, it makes no sense to ask what happened to the you. It also carries the implication that you are not your brain, but rather the abstract dynamical system instantiated in it.
Even if you are raised from the dead, it means you just go back to work at some point, where you prompt an AI Agent all day, collect a paycheck, pay bills, and occasionally do some dopamine stimulating activities, until you die again?
This tech will only be used on people who are considered too important to die: demagogues and dictators, mass influencers.
176 comments
https://archive.is/SMcX5
What server will I wake up on? Who is running the infrastructure? What will be asked of me to be allowed to continue to exist on that server? Given our current societal trends, I can't imagine I would enjoy any existence where a copy of me is spun back up.
And of course, my original thread of consciousness will still be ended, so this is some alternate copy of me. (Based on my view of the teletransportation paradox.)
> And of course, my original thread of consciousness will still be ended, so this is some alternate copy of me.
Mine ends several times every night. I am probably generic92034#60000 and counting.
Cherish it if the Great RNG In The Sky gave your simulation cycle a good seed.
So, if copying brains is possible, and you don't know which version of you you are, you might have odds of, say, 1 to 1 trillion to be living your first, biological live.
Which is to say, if copying brains is possible, you are likely to be running in a simulation already.
[0] there's multiple links and I can't find where I first read, but I found this one from 2024, https://scottaaronson.blog/?p=7774 and uhh.. turns out the argument isn't from him personally (and he doesn't even believe on it), and is best presented here https://simulation-argument.com/ (though it's presented very differently so idk)
My compliance is complete.
I don't understand why people don't get this simple fact. We are all gonna die, make inner peace with that (it isn't that hard, depends mostly on your ego) and enjoy rest of that short time here. If you seek immortality, do it either via exceptional deeds or via well-raised children, that's the best we have.
No force in the world is going to move both your mortal neurons with all synapses and electric charge between them that together form your personality into anything else, digital or not. Its like asking to transfer this cup of tea I hold right now into digital form. No, it can be copied to certain precision and that's it.
>
I don't understand why people don't get this simple fact.Some people think identity and the continuity of consciousness are based on information or computation, and not on specific physical matter or soul-like constructs, so for them a transfer of all relevant information would constitute a transfer of consciousness and identity. From this perspective (leaving aside questions of practicality) "you yourself looking from the biological body at somebody else in the computer" is exactly as valid as "you yourself looking from inside the computer at somebody else in the biological body" (and in fact the whole idea that you have to choose one or the other as "the real you" becomes moot on this view).
Of course it's a difficult metaphysical conundrum but to say that your view of things is "a simple fact" when the basic scientific materialist worldview of today points at least as much in the opposite direction is a bit overconfident.
People have strokes or accidents and wake up missing memories and with changed bodies, but their families still call them by name.
You still being you is a matter of degree, not a binary, and different people are comfortable with different degrees of change.
Does the thread of someone elses consciousness ends when they experience grand mal seizure and thrir electrical brain activity goes wrong all at once and then resets?
How's "waking up" in the virtual different from waking up from grand mal seizure? (assuming that all relevant biochemical data of neurons was read correcly and their behavior is simulated correctly)
> What will be asked of me to be allowed to continue to exist on that server?
I can't imagine anything of value that you could offer at that point, when artificial intelligence has become so powerful. Any knowledge you have would have been outdated and any intellectual ability would have been surpassed already.
> "to allow them to continue, in effect, with their life.”
"in effect" doing a lot of heavy lifting there.
Most likely they're just preserving the tissue, but not the consciousness
Do you take the deal? Do you sign your family up for it?
Probably a good first step in life extension, I know a lot of first peeks at this came from hypothermic people. Those lessons are now used in heart surgeries to slow metabolism and limit cell deaths.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8297075/
https://user.ceng.metu.edu.tr/~ucoluk/yazin/William_and_Mary...
That being said, ever since I found out about Colossal Bioscience and their de-extinction projects, I have been tuned into their progress with great interest because it is the real life Jurassic Park.
One by one your neurons are replaced by their digital counterpart as a nano-scale computer in-place, with equivalent functionality. After which neuron number are you no longer you? You remain conscious throughout the process, the process may last however long with pauses for sleep.
After the replacement is complete, one by one these neurons are switched off with their functionality offloaded to their clone instantiated in a computer. After which neuron number are you no longer you?
This mind upload thought experiment convinced me that as long as there are no sharp discontinuities in experience, it makes no sense to ask what happened to the you. It also carries the implication that you are not your brain, but rather the abstract dynamical system instantiated in it.
Even if you are raised from the dead, it means you just go back to work at some point, where you prompt an AI Agent all day, collect a paycheck, pay bills, and occasionally do some dopamine stimulating activities, until you die again?
This tech will only be used on people who are considered too important to die: demagogues and dictators, mass influencers.