Mystery jump in oil trading ahead of Trump post draws scrutiny (bbc.com)

by psim1 392 comments 570 points
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392 comments

[−] unyttigfjelltol 53d ago
1. By a show of hands, who was surprised that the cataclysmic warnings of the weekend subsided into talk of diplomacy on Monday?

2. Let’s hypothesize the US gov’t or allies did pre-release this info to traders as a policy tool, inviting them to sell oil profitably, shaping the later price action . In a practical sense they may have brought more speculators to the short side than otherwise would have been there; is that scenario really beyond the pale?

3. News of war and sovereign relations on an international stage necessarily will test the boundaries of traditional law of confidentiality and fair practices.

[−] inaros 53d ago
If you run the numbers: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47504505

You will see, that anything else other than a ground invasion, is guaranteed to give Iran a war victory.

[−] roncesvalles 52d ago
The loss of ability to intercept missiles does not mean that the war is lost for America. It just means that it now has to contend with more of its own losses during the war.

America always goes to war with the handicap that 1 American life is worth hundreds of enemy lives. This handicap is why one gets the impression (illusion) that countries like Iran are able to hold their own against the great mighty USA. But if America stops playing as cautiously as it does, it turns into a very different war machine.

[−] saidnooneever 53d ago
if a ground invasion goes they will destroy oil trade and everyone is screwed.

The war should not be won. it should be ended before everyone loses.

[−] Spooky23 52d ago
Not traders. Friends and family. These guys are idiots who figure they will all be pardoned before Trump leaves office, or part of the junta that replaces him if he doesn’t leave office.
[−] hedora 52d ago
1. I was, but felt dumb, like Charlie Brown.

2. They definitely did. There's evidence from prediction markets too, and the timing is within 15 minutes of the press conference. It's beyond the pale because this was a quid pro quo action, where Trump toyed with people's lives so that his campaign donors could profit off his otherwise pointless war.

3. Not true. It is unusual for militaries to preannounce their battle plans to wall street speculators so that those speculators can make a quick buck.

[−] saidnooneever 53d ago
no one was surprised.

i imagine both sides are actually in the same game.

why do u think trump allow iran to sell oil still -_-. there was a lovely post earlier today on HN laying it all out pretty eloquently.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47499822

i personally think the people who do _business_ on both sides will find their way to profit out of this. as they always do.

if u look at the timing of statements u can see its just a game.

[−] thewileyone 52d ago
It's not much of a mystery. It's pretty apparent what is happening.
[−] asd198 52d ago
The same people will have call options on Friday:

- Pakistan has a defense treaty with Saudi Arabia.

- Saudi Arabia has been attacked.

- Witkoff claims to negotiate with Iranians in Pakistan and Iran denies it. Witkoff has a horrible track record in that either the negotiations fail or are a precursor to attacks.

- What better way to spend time in Pakistan than to recruit a proxy and promise US money to the cash-strapped government?

[−] dang 52d ago
(I changed the URL from https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/stock-market-today-dow-sp-5... because there doesn't appear to be any readable workaround for the latter)
[−] NegativeLatency 53d ago
Martha Stewart was sent to prison for less
[−] heyitsmedotjayb 53d ago
I'm not smart enough to understand why - but surely this isn't sustainable? At some point wont the price not reflect the reality of simply not having gas to put in your car? What is going on... The price of oil went down 10% yesterday, opened +0% today and is back to +4%...
[−] balderdash 52d ago
Isn’t this just about the easiest thing to investigate (at least to know the parties n loved and the purported basis for the trade)?
[−] readitalready 53d ago
It's why WTI crude never exceeds $100/barrel. Every time it gets that high the insider in the administration shorts it and the administration announces a new policy delaying more strikes.
[−] barryfandango 52d ago
Many of us use site analytics software that can watch what our users are doing in our apps. Also, Truth Social has a feature where you can schedule a post (that feature is part of the upgraded "partriot package".) Either one of these features might have the truth social staff getting early access to the president's truuts.
[−] keeganpoppen 52d ago
is anyone else really starting to get fucking tired of this bullshit? yes, it is not an unprecedented, nor unique, phenomenon, but, like, it just feels so blatant. and i say this as someone who doesn’t reflexively hate everything trump does. i do, of course, dislike most things he does, but i do so in what i consider to be a fairly sympathetic and open-minded way. but this is just, like… kleptocracy, no?
[−] fraywing 53d ago
I'm growing pessimistic that this kind of activity + the egregious presidential-level crypto scams will never see justice. What's the path for that, really?
[−] jmyeet 53d ago
It’s almost like turning the president into a monarch by baselessly granting total immunity was a bad idea, foreseeably so.

This is the new normal.

I want people to really think about what’s going on here. $1-2 billion of taxpayer money is being spent every day to literally kill people for stock and futures trades.

And nobody will be punished for this. Anyone who gets a whiff of legal trouble will just buy a person.

At some point this is going to destroy even the appearance of market integrity.

[−] hermitcrab 53d ago
What a massive coincidence!
[−] tsoukase 52d ago
It's not mystery. Any US military engagement has multiple benefits:

1) direct increase and profit for weapon companies, military contractors and oil people

2) show the world who the boss is and everyone should stay under the wing

3) propagate fear globally and keep people aligned

And this time another one is added

4) shorting and gambling of active politicians having insider knowledge

[−] vonneumannstan 52d ago
This administration has taken grift and corruption to a level only seen in banana republics. I seriously don't know how you come back from this. GOP voters seem to be openly cheering it.
[−] mikewarot 52d ago
I'm not sure if this is parody or not, but someone admitted to it. These days it wouldn't surprise me if it were this brazen.

https://x.com/gothburz/status/2036413487530831899

[−] josefritzishere 53d ago
After a year of frequent insider pump and dump scams, is it too pessemistic to assume this is another one? I'm trying to find something hopeful.
[−] fallingfrog 52d ago
And who was the person or group who made correct predictions in advance of the announcement? Why not just say who it was?
[−] apparent 52d ago
Were there any moves on Polymarket or other platforms that could have triggered these trades in the "real" market?
[−] ck2 52d ago
but the real crime

this war will most certainly still be going on by the end of 2026

and at that point will have cost half a trillion dollars

US oil producers are THRILLED at these prices (as well as Russia)

he can't just end the war, not only his call anymore

if US leaves the strait no oil will ever get through

and there are 150 tankers currently waiting, maybe forever

[−] atemerev 53d ago
Well if Democrats ever win, there will be a lot of fine investigations for years ahead.
[−] rrrx3 52d ago
"Mystery" doing a whole lot of heavy lifting in that headline
[−] burnt-resistor 52d ago
Prison and recovery of ill-gotten proceeds of crimes for all the crooks and most billionaires who are criminals too.
[−] ting0 52d ago
There's no mystery here. His son Oil Barron Trump has been doing the same thing, along with Trump, in the crypto markets and online prediction markets for years now. They've made over a billion easy.
[−] krunck 52d ago

> A [whitehouse] spokesman told the Financial Times that it did not "tolerate any administration official illegally profiteering off of insider knowledge".

So the Trump administration is passing on information for others to profit from in exchange for something else. Totally legal. Right?

[−] loudmax 53d ago
Charlie Sykes, a founder of the Bulwark podcast, has a story about it here:

https://charliesykes.substack.com/p/a-vivid-snapshot-of-trum...

Some highlights include a $580 million dollar bet on oil futures 15 minutes before Trump made the announcement of talks with Iran, which the Iranian government denied actually happened.

Naturally, political appointments at the SEC are preventing investigation.

[−] renewiltord 53d ago
As Nancy Pelosi says: "We’re a free market economy. They should be able to participate in that."
[−] chasd00 53d ago
Just so everyone is aware, Trump mentioned the deal in an interview before his post on TruthSocial. So if you're thinking all the trades that happened just before the TruthSocial post are insider trading maybe the traders where just watching the news.

If i can find a link to the interview i'll come back and edit this post with a link and where it fits in the wsj timeline.

[−] chunky1994 53d ago
@dang, this has way more discussion than the previous threa,d but people can't see this because it's a dupe.
[−] yorrkhunt 52d ago
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[−] leontloveless 53d ago
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[−] andix 53d ago
People got exactly what they voted for. It would be hilarious, if it wasn't so serious.
[−] Swoerd 53d ago
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[−] wesselbindt 52d ago
Very mysterious
[−] NikxDa 53d ago
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[−] ixlixl 53d ago
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[−] iberator 53d ago
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[−] ayeshaahmad_w 52d ago
One trade is a coincidence. Tariffs, crypto, Iran talks — each time markets move right before the announcement. That's not coincidence anymore, that's infrastructure.
[−] sega_sai 53d ago
At this point, I would rather these people enrich themselves as long as they stop the war, but I am afraid they will continue doing both.