Gerard of Cremona (en.wikipedia.org)

by teleforce 18 comments 41 points
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18 comments

[−] nestorD 48d ago
For people wondering why the Islamic world would have had more texts, many of which are of western (Greek/Latin) origin, than the western world. The problem is that, as the Roman empire collapsed, papyrus supply disappeared in the west (while north Africa still had papyrus, and later early paper) forcing copyist to use-significantly more expensive and lower supply-parchment. As the texts on papyrus started to crumble to dust, monks had to decide which ones to save given the limited writing material available (so they saved a lot of Saint Augustin...).
[−] jmclnx 48d ago
Unfortunately few people know without the Muslim Scholars after the fall of Rome, little of the ancient texts would have survived.

But I wonder, was some meaning lost from Greek|Latin -> Arabic -> Latin ?

[−] fmajid 48d ago
Not just ancients' knowledge, algebra comes from a corruption of al-jabr in Musa al Khwarizmi's "al-Kitāb al-Mukhtaṣar fī Ḥisāb al-Jabr wal-Muqābalah". al-Khwarzimi himself got corrupted to algorismus, from which the word algorithm came from. Also, 2/3 of named stars have Arabic-origin names. Arabic influence on medecine and chemistry was significant, the word alcohol is also of Arabic origin, as is Chemistry via al-kimiya, alchemy. And finally, admirals are amir-al-bahr, emirs of the sea.
[−] Beijinger 48d ago
Greek|Latin -> Arabic -> Latin

His pupil, the English scholastic Daniel of Morley, recorded one of Gerhard's methods[6] in translation: His Mozarabic assistant Ghalib (Latinized Galippus)[7] translated the text orally into medieval Castilian, Gerhard listened and wrote the text down in Latin. In the case of the Almagest, which had been translated from its original language of Ancient Greek first into Syriac, then into Arabic, and which Gerhard translated into Latin via the oral route of Castilian, this long chain of transmission introduced numerous sources of error.

[−] christkv 48d ago
This is not even close to true. The Byzantine Empire was the keeper of all of this western knowledge. The arabs got their texts from them and the Spanish from them and the Byzantines. The arabs did trade texts from India to Europe as well.
[−] griffzhowl 48d ago
Nevertheless, many of the texts from the Greeks were first translated into Latin from Arabic copies in Spain from the 11th century, because the Greek versions were inaccessible in Western Europe until Constantinople was conquered in 1453 and the scholars escaped to the west with their scrolls
[−] christkv 48d ago
They transmitted the text yeah but they were not the “preserver” of the roman legacy. The byzantines viewed themselves as romans.
[−] griffzhowl 48d ago
I was talking about Greek texts rather than Roman legacy, whatever that means. Arabs certainly preserved some of the Greek texts, because many haven't survived in origianl Greek manuscripts:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graeco-Arabic_translation_move...

The Muslims also made original contributions to science, e.g. Ibn Sahl discovering what later became known as Snell's law of refraction.

[−] canjobear 48d ago

> Unfortunately few people know without the Muslim Scholars after the fall of Rome, little of the ancient texts would have survived.

I was taught this many times in US schools.

[−] christkv 48d ago
And its a fabrication of history
[−] throw0101a 48d ago

>

Unfortunately few people know without the Muslim Scholars after the fall of Rome, little of the ancient texts would have survived.

Did not Muslim Scholars originally get the texts from Nestorian and Syriac Christians in the Middle East? Wouldn't there be a good chance of the text surviving in their monasteries?

[−] inglor_cz 47d ago
Arab-writing, not necessarily always Muslim. For example, the first person to describe Prague was Ibrahim ibn Yaqub, an Arabic-writing Jewish merchant from Cordoba.

Arabic was a lingua franca of a territory that was significantly more religiously diverse than today. Both contemporary Iraq and Egypt were only about 50 per cent Muslim by the age of the Crusades. This applied in many other regions that are now 90+% Muslim and where we can hardly imagine any non-Islamic community today.

[−] tgv 48d ago
The fall of Rome is 5th century, so it predates Islam, doesn't it?
[−] layer8 48d ago
Rather, thanks to the scholars of the Byzantine Empire, aka the Eastern Roman Empire.
[−] riffraff 48d ago
I think it's pretty sure some of it was.

Just consider that the X in math is not a latin X but a Greek Χ (chi) :)

[−] wotsdat 48d ago
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