Author of Red Mars calls 'bullshit' on emigrating to the planet (newscientist.com)

by Brajeshwar 145 comments 76 points
Read article View on HN

145 comments

[−] glenstein 50d ago
Currently reading Blue Mars, the third and final book in the trilogy. It's amazingly fascinating but also exhausting. I say with full seriousness it may be best to read this with a very specific high resolution full color map of Mars on your wall somewhere.

If anything KSR is not giving himself as much credit as he deserves, as personal AIs show up in ways that are remarkably salient and similar to what we're currently seeing. And he talks about advances in genetics that parallel what we're figuring out with CRISPR at least to some degrees. The biggest "error" is the preoccupation with a Paul Ehrlich-style population boom, but by the same token it reveals that the book is a window into the time it was made.

If any ambitious and aspiring science novelists are reading this, I would love for someone to be the Kim Stanley Robinson of Venus and tell the story of colonization there, aspiring to the same bar of technical specificity that KSR had for Red Mars.

[−] simonbarker87 50d ago
Good on you, exhausting is the right word I’d think. Red Mars was the book that killed my enthusiasm for reading for nearly a year. Something about it bored me to tears and yet, I kept reading (my fault) I think I gave up at 60%.

I feel like I should like it, I’ve read everything my Neal Stephenson so I’m not averse to hefty books

[−] glenstein 50d ago
I think I was in a similar boat and where in doubt, I think I powered through for completionist sake. But it's possible you paused right before some of the most interesting stuff in the whole book.

It's not a spoiler to note that the it begins with a flash forward that talks about the fate of a major character. Some of the most interesting stuff starts happening to them and it comes full circle in a way that leads up to that flash forward. And mercifully the constant mentions of regolith lessen the deeper into the series you get.

[−] inaros 49d ago
"Kim Stanley Robinson: Origins of the Red Mars Trilogy" - https://youtu.be/zn2Van5cZD4
[−] TwoNineA 50d ago
I think Neil DeGrasse Tyson said it best (paraphrasing): It takes less money and effort to fix Earth than to terraform Mars.
[−] wongarsu 50d ago
However there are a lot of entrenched interests that would be harmed by any large-scale attempts at fixing earth. Even if you paid for it out of your own pocket and brought your own engineers, your attempt at fixing Earth would face strong opposition. Meanwhile barely anyone would oppose your attempt at improving Mars.

The article is however spot on that terraforming Mars looked easier 30 years ago than it looks now, with all the new knowledge we have from Mars rovers. Now any "realistic" plan would be millions of people living in pressurized habitats and venturing out in suits, not billions walking on the surface in t-shirts. Closer to what we see in The Expanse than to what we dreamed up in the 80s and 90s

[−] vikingerik 50d ago
I don't remember the source but I also like this quote: Before we worry about terraforming Mars, maybe first we should stop Venusforming Terra.
[−] stronglikedan 50d ago
Classic Neil, always something smart-sounding to say about the wrong thing. It's more about discovery and adventure than fleeing a dying planet. To quote someone that I'm sure is Neil's intellectual superior, "¿Por qué no los dos?"
[−] CalRobert 50d ago
Because at this rate we'll be lucky to get enough funding and cooperation just to prevent Earth from warming by 4+C, and we need all hands on deck for that.
[−] inaros 50d ago
I know deGrasse is apparently in private, a bit of a ahole, but in this case he is completely correct: https://youtu.be/t0Yqy_-PCfY

https://youtu.be/IdjtK54Lprw?t=266

[−] wongarsu 50d ago
That's a very bad-faith take of Musk's stated plans. Which is great for sound bites, but there is enough wrong with a good-faith interpretation of his plans that this is entirely unnecessary. He is not arguing in good faith here
[−] jubilanti 50d ago
Classic sarcastic ironically detached drive-by HN comment. Where is the money going to come from to do both? Every dollar spent on discovery and adventure could be invested in Earth based projects.
[−] bigyabai 50d ago

> "¿Por qué no los dos?"

Because right now we're not investing in fixing Earth but seriously investing in an infeasible Mars mission.

[−] IAmBroom 50d ago
Because colonizing Mars is only slightly more realistic than breeding unicorns.
[−] ithkuil 50d ago
The only advantage of terraforming Mars is that if you do it wrong you're not making it worse for anybody that lives there. It could be a good test bench if it wasn't for the elephant in the room: it takes a very long time to terraform a planet
[−] browningstreet 50d ago
Terraform Earth!
[−] bananzamba 50d ago
Of course that is true, every Mars enthusiast will agree. Not a single person is saying to leave Earth behind to rot. Agree with Mars proponents or not, but at least don't argue against strawmen. Their actual argument treats Mars as a backup strategy for humanity and a science outpost
[−] phs318u 49d ago
I completely agree... IF the implied caveat is “for ALL of us”.

If, on the other hand, you are talking about an extremely small subset of the population (maybe the size or of the world’s billionaires, their families and key staff), it might be cheaper to partially “terraform” within very large bio-domes that moderate Martian excesses (UV at the surface, dust storms etc), than to repair the Earth. In the former case you’re limiting scale to what you need without having to deal with the ungrateful peasants that are just after your money.

[−] aaron695 50d ago
[dead]
[−] inaros 50d ago
Folks...The US is effectively bankrupt with a 40 Trillion dollars debt in case you did not notice. The US Treasury is just a few minutes away from an economic event, that will force the US government to spend more than 70% to 80% of tax revenues on servicing said debt.

There is no scientific or economic case to even go to Mars, much less colonize it. And with the current advances in robotics and automation there is nothing astronauts could do that a sophisticated robot team would not do better.

Many interesting Scifi stories show, that really advanced civilizations quickly lose interest in extended Space travel, and we should take the hint...