From Proxmox to FreeBSD and Sylve in our office lab (iptechnics.com)

by arch1e 84 comments 98 points
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84 comments

[−] dizhn 46d ago
Sylve looks like a decent project with a promising future but this article really doesn't explain why they picked it over Proxmox at all. They explain a lot of things but I can't see the advantage over prox other than they wanted to use it.
[−] arch1e 46d ago
OP here. One thing we mentioned in the blog but probably didn’t emphasize enough is how deeply ZFS is integrated into the UI.

With Sylve, you rarely need to touch the CLI. Snapshots, datasets, ZVOLs, even flashing images directly to ZVOLs, it’s all handled from the UI in a straightforward way.

That tight ZFS integration also lets us build more flexible backup workflows. You can back up VMs, jails, or entire datasets to any remote machine that supports SSH + ZFS. This is powered by Zelta (https://zelta.space) (which is embedded directly into the Go backend), so it’s built-in rather than something you bolt on.

In Proxmox, you can achieve similar things, but it’s less intuitive and usually involves setting up additional components like Proxmox Backup Server.

[−] dizhn 46d ago
I did actually notice the ZFS gui which is indeed something lacking in proxmox which doesn't default to ZFS in the installer. However once you do install it using ZFS it actually makes use of it pretty well and the user does not need to mess with the zfs cli tools much. Obviously it would be nice to have a GUI for all zfs operations too. Then again even TrueNAS refers you back to the cli for SOME operations.

On proxmox ZFS syncs do not require proxmox backup server, which actually has its own format which is very efficient in speed and disk space, but you do either need something like sanoid/syncoid or use of the shell.

[−] xoa 46d ago
Do you have any opinions on how this works vs doing iSCSI to some other storage system using ZFS? That's how I've been handling Proxmox on the backend, and have mixed feelings. The GUI leaves a very great deal to be desired in honestly curious ways, have to touch the CLI a lot even for super basic networking or auth stuff, and of course neither side has the same insight to the data structures in question. Either you've got to do ZVOL instances and thus manual effort or scripting, or you give Proxmox a single big blob then let it manage that with LVM but that means the storage side can't give any granular help on snapshots and the like. It still can deal with data integrity and backups and storage redundancy and all that but no further, and some increased overhead. But on the other hand, I do feel like a really firm separation of concerns isn't without value. Having native support though is an interesting alternative I hadn't really considered.
[−] TacticalCoder 46d ago

> They explain a lot of things but I can't see the advantage over prox other than they wanted to use it.

A huge, totally obvious, advantage is that FreeBSD isn't using systemd. I'm now nearly systemd-free, if not for Proxmox. But my VMs are systemd free. And, by definition, my containers too (where basically the entire point is that there's a PID 1 for the service and that PID 1, in a container is not systemd).

So the last piece missing for me is getting rid of Proxmox because Proxmox is using systemd.

I was thinking about going straight to FreeBSD+bhyve (the hypervisor) but that felt a bit raw. FreeBSD+Sylve (using bhyve under the hood) seems to be, at long last, my way out of systemd.

I've got several servers at home with Proxmox but I never, on purpose, relied too much on Proxmox: I kept it to the bare minimum. I create VMs and use cloudinit and tried to have most of it automated and always made it with the idea of getting rid of Promox.

I've got nothing against Proxmox but fuck systemd. Just fuck that system.

[−] Cyph0n 46d ago
Sometimes unification can be an advantage.

I run Proxmox at home, but now that I have been drinking the NixOS koolaid over the past 2 years, all of my homelab problems suddenly look like Nix-shaped nails.

[−] KaiserPro 46d ago
What does Sylve provide that proxmox doesn't?

Or better, how does it do it better than proxmox?

This isn't to say that proxmox is the best thing since sliced bread, I'm curious as to what makes sylve better, is it the API?

[−] arch1e 46d ago
OP here. It’s less about Sylve doing something Proxmox can’t do, and more about a bunch of QoL improvements that come from us being heavy Proxmox users and building what we felt was missing.

A few concrete things:

ZFS-first UX: Not just "ZFS as storage”, but everything built around it. Snapshots, clones, ZVOLs, replication, all cleanly exposed in the UI without dropping to CLI.

Simple backups without extra infra: Any remote box with SSH + ZFS works. No need to deploy something like PBS just to get decent backups.

Built-in Samba shares: You can spin up and manage shares directly from the UI without having to manually configure services.

Magnet / torrent downloader baked in: Sounds small, but for homelab use it removes a whole extra container/VM people usually end up running.

Clustering: but not all-or-nothing, You can cluster nodes when you need it, and also disable/unwind it later. Proxmox clusters are much more rigid once set up.

Templates done right: Create a base VM/jail once and spin up N instances from it in one go, straight from the UI.

FreeBSD base: It's not really a benefit of Sylve, but rather the ecosystem that FreeBSD provides.. Tighter system integration, smaller surface area, no systemd, etc. (depending on what you care about)

None of this is to say Proxmox is bad, it’s great. This is more "we used it a lot, hit some friction points, and built something that feels smoother for our workflows."

[−] gcifuentes 46d ago
Bhyve doesn't feature nested virt though.
[−] wolvoleo 46d ago
This is really interesting. I've played with bhyve before but I didn't realise anyone actually used it in anger. And that people had written such great tooling around it.

My home lab still uses ESXi 8. But it needs something new and I was looking at proxmox. However I may give this a try first.

[−] meitham 46d ago
The article promotes the value of UI for the infrastructure by touching on ZFS. But in this age of Ai, what I’m really looking for is a good api or cli one can let LLM drives. I basically care more about using my infrastructure than how to create it. I know proxmox can do this, but I wish there was a nixos like system where all my VMs are in one file I can verify between LLM making the change and deployment
[−] ThomIves 45d ago
I was very happy to read this one. I do use ProxMox, and I have very few issues with it, but perhaps it would be worth the investigation.
[−] jollymonATX 46d ago
When I first read this I was like wow bad choice vs sticking w proxmox but then I reflected a bit on my rashness. A tight zfs L1 w/o systemd actually does sound interesting. I'm going to wipe a machine and give it a spin and see for myself. Could be interesting!
[−] ggm 46d ago
I'd love a simple explanation of the virt/bridge interface choices, and also why people pick NAT vs true address for their jails and virtuals.

Likewise for disk i/o -some people swear by 9P as a backing mechanism, some by ZVOL.

[−] matifali 45d ago
Any plans or thoughts for? Terraform Provider? I use Proxmox as my infrastructure provider and heavily rely on Terraform to provision resources.
[−] sidkshatriya 46d ago
I love FreeBSD but Linux just provides every feature under the sun when it comes to virtualization. Do you find any missing features on bhyve ? Is bhyve reliable ? I can't imagine its been tested as thoroughly as KVM ...
[−] h4kunamata 46d ago

>A lot of our week is made up of the same kinds of small tasks: provision a VM, tweak storage settings, pass through a device, replicate a dataset, share a file, test an image, throw the machine away, do it again. None of that is exciting.

All I read is that they are still doing ClickOPS over DevSecOps!!

At no moment I heard automation, if you aren't using automation in 2026, your future in IT is cooked.

I run Proxmox at home for my homelab. I used to use VMs and now I have fully adopted Proxmox LXC containers (I hate Docker). I use Ansible to automate everything.

Last night I wanted to setup a notification service called Gotify, the Ansible playbook must:

1. Create a LXC container with specified resources

2. Prepare the system, network and what not

3. Give me a fully operational LXC and service running, go to the browser and voila.

All of that by running one command line, so now I can deploy it over and over.

I have setup a LXC container running Radarr, qBittorrent, Sonarr, Jackett, WireGuard VPN via Proton VPN, Iptables firewall aka kill-switch.

All of what you just read running within a LXC container fully automated via Ansible, OP is doing everything manually.

Even if I was running Sylve, Ansible would be doing the whole automation stuff.