Typing and Keyboards (lzon.ca)

by jpmitchell 74 comments 48 points
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74 comments

[−] ivraatiems 47d ago
I type 120 wpm using a bizarre method I acquired through trial and error as a kid. It uses mostly my thumbs and index fingers and has been described by observers as "disconcerting". But it works great for me, and about perfectly matches the speed of my thoughts. My typing teachers hated it. It's touch typing in the sense that I don't need to look at the keys, but it is definitely Not Right.

It does mean that I can't use "ergonomic" or split hand keyboards easily, though.

I have a couple different inexpensive Aula and similar mechanical keyboards I prefer to use.

[−] thomastjeffery 47d ago
The whole premise of "correct" typing on a traditional keyboard is absurd. It's trying to force good ergonomics into a system that is simply incompatible with it. You're better off either making yourself compatible with the system, or vice versa.

I type "incorrectly" on traditional qwerty keyboards, too. I also type "correctly" on my split ergonomic keyboard, using the workman layout. As far as I can tell, I'm not any faster with either; but I definitely enjoy using the ergonomic keyboard more.

[−] EvanAnderson 47d ago
This sounds like me. I've been described as "high speed hunt and peck". I have slowed down a bit in the last decade or so, but I can still type fast enough for everything I want to do. I've had no reason to pursue anything different because it's not an impediment to my work.

I'd like to how the incidence of repetitive strain injury from typing compares between populations who follow a rigorous technique versus personalized. I've never had the slightest discomfort typing, albeit I'm sure I'm not in the upper echelons of typing quantity per unit of time either.

[−] opan 47d ago
Try taking 3 1 minute typing tests back to back at your full speed and maybe you'll feel a little something. Any discomforts I had mainly revealed themselves under heavy loads like this. If you never type a lot in a row, it can be easy to miss
[−] cam_l 47d ago
I also mostly use only my thumbs and index fingers, but probably only up to 60 words a minute because that is how fast (or slow) I think.

I always thought I was a touch typist because I rarely look at the keyboard. But then I got a keyboard with blank keycaps and realise how very much I rely on my peripheral vision.

[−] opan 47d ago
I did similar as a kid, weird random typing, mostly left hand, thumb used for some of the letters, etc. If you're willing to dedicate 2-4 weeks of fully immersed proper typing, you can definitely undo the old habits. Takes a bit longer to regain your old speeds, but it's mainly the very beginning that is frustrating. Whether that's worth it is hard to say. I use both shift keys now, and a split ergonomic keyboard. The numrow is easier to hit accurately as I have internalized the placement as well as the rows of letters after a lot more typing practice (columnar stagger rather than row stagger also helps, I think, I slide my fingers straight up and know which numbers are there).
[−] ivraatiems 47d ago
Yeah, I've been told this. And I can type the "right" way at like 40-60 wpm. But I haven't seen any real reason to bother.
[−] animal531 47d ago
I kind of wonder what the key difference is over 40 years for typing text vs code.

I type text at a rather slow rate due to poor training and never having really tried to improve, but when it comes to code I can output code sequences so much faster.

[−] bandofthehawk 47d ago
120 wpm using mostly thumb and index fingers sounds insane to me. I type using standard touch typing and can only get to about 60 wpm. I've always been a bit of a slow typist. Can I ask how you measured the 120 wpm?
[−] ivraatiems 47d ago
Just the standard online typing tests you can find by googling. In fairness, 120wpm is a maximum. I'm often slower than that. But always over 100.

Edit: For those who are curious, I took this test: https://www.typing.com/student/typing-test/1-minute and got 116 wpm at 99% accuracy.

At https://www.typingtest.com/benchmark.php over two minutes, 117 wpm at 97% accuracy.

[−] jiehong 47d ago
I never learnt how to touch-type, until I moved to a different keyboard layout (namely bepo [0]).

I recommend finding a good keyboard you enjoy using, but it's a bit annoying if you need to carry it around. Whatever you do, don't be afraid to try some ortholinear versions or split ones!

I sometimes like to use dictation nowadays, but I found out I tend to be much more concise when I type, compared to when I dictate (but thank god for easily available great dictation systems nowadays! [1]).

[0]: https://bepo.fr/wiki/Accueil

[1]: although, dictating terminal commands or code is too much of a hassle

[−] raincole 47d ago
How do people (especially programmers) actually type )_+={}\'"

I know the touch typing says they're all typed by pinky, but after so many years it still doesn't feel right for me. Why is the weakest finger in charge of so many keys?

[−] chirayuk 47d ago
I have "Shift space" remapped to underscore as that was my biggest annoyance. The rest I've made peace with (though not ergonomic).
[−] bee_rider 47d ago
I guess, having just tried it, I use my pinky for []. But, it is not so bad, realistically the actions are

    Hit [type whatever goes in here, hit ]
So it isn’t really a repetitive action or limited by the rate at which I can hit brackets I think even for programmers who use weird punctuation, a file should still mostly not be punctuation.
[−] thatguy00 47d ago
I have written many scripts with succinct wording. There were absolutely more non-alphanumeric character. Try Perl, it's fun.
[−] thatguy00 47d ago
I mapped them to the row above the home row, in order of bendy complication. So it's {[<(/ for the left hand, and \)>]} for the right. I just hold them down for the punctuation instead of letters. So much easier, imo.
[−] larrry 47d ago
I have an Ergodox EZ setup with a layer switch under my left thumb to a code-symbols layer on my right hand, formatted kinda like numpad but for brackets and boolean math. It’s been a good way for me to eliminate a lot of pinky use
[−] Groxx 47d ago
tbh when typing both together, I just shift my hand and press with my index and middle fingers. otherwise it's my pinky.
[−] jweather 46d ago
parens are third and fourth finger

=+ is my palm (weird keyboard I know)

[]{} I used a modifier key to put them on O and P directly below () (columnar keyboard)

-_ and \| are actually pinky

I don't feel like any particular finger is overloaded. Dvorak helps a lot with that IMHO.

[−] istillcantcode 47d ago
Tangentially related to the lack of computer literacy in younger generations, but there are a lot of speed demons on their phones these days. I have high confidence that there are more people in the US that can type faster than 50WPM with the default Android or iOS keyboard than a physical keyboard. At this point I would bet on a cheap phone shaped USB touchscreen to use as a keyboard with a PC. It would be a cool Kickstarter project if its not already before getting cloned by 6-7 companies if successful.

Also looking into using my phone as a keyboard as a write this comment too. I don't know why I have not looked into it sooner, but it seems like a no-brainer now that I am writing this out.

[−] thatguy00 47d ago
KDE has a phone connection program called KDE Connect that lets you use your phone as input.
[−] harel 47d ago
Mavis Beacon thought me to touch type on my Amiga as a kid, and I'm grateful to her. In recent years I've been using a Logitech membrane keyboard. It's great for a membrane but mostly it's quiet. I work at night and that's a hard requirement. I'm looking for a mechanical as quiet as the Logitech and it's a struggle. Feels like there is a gap in the market for (really) quiet mechanicals.
[−] thatguy00 47d ago
There are definitely quiet mechanical switches out there. I'm pretty happy with my Kailh LP Whale silent tactiles. My old IBM style was so loud at night.
[−] snvzz 47d ago
Consider Topre, e.g. a Realforce R4 keyboard.
[−] lpghatguy 47d ago
I bought the same keyboard when I was a teenager as my first "real" keyboard!

These days I have a ZSA Moonlander. I adore it! I love how easy it is to program it without any software installed and it's been phenomenal to customize it to fit me perfectly.

I just changed all the switches out (in order to be quieter than my stock Cherry MX Brown switches) and replaced them with a set of Gazzew U4 switches. I'm _shocked_ at how far mechanical switches have come along since the days of Cherry dominance. They're super quiet and still have an awesome tactile feel!

[−] jpmitchell 47d ago
That was my impression too. I used to think I'd use nothing but MX Blues forever. The 'copycat' switches haven't just caught up, they've been innovating and Cherry seems to have given up.
[−] stavros 47d ago
Does anyone here use a numpad? What for? I made my own macropad[1] but I struggle to find a use, the only thing I use it for is CAD shortcut keys. Any ideas are welcome!

[1] https://immich.home.stavros.io/share/GE_noaUx1_cayK9WDVvzutr...

[−] tom_ 47d ago
I have a number of AutoHotKey/Hammerspoon numpad shortcuts for arranging windows.

In Visual Studio, on the suggestion of a colleague at my first job, I use Numpad + for copy, Numpad - for cut, and Numpad * for paste. (I've never managed to train my hand eye coordination to use these in any other program. Which is a bit of a shame, because they're actually pretty useful. Whichever side you mouse on, you can find some way of hitting them without much effort.)

The numpad also comes in handy sometimes for typing numbers.

[−] mememememememo 47d ago
As a 90s phone user where you text on one it feel like a fast way to type a credit card number or similar. Pretty rare use case with modern keychains and password managers though.
[−] stavros 47d ago
Man, T9 was the best though.
[−] jasomill 47d ago
I do when I'm using a keyboard that has one, for numeric input, but I don't do this often enough to prefer it to the smaller form factor of a tenkeyless keyboard.

My usual layout, left to right, is Magic Trackpad, tenkeyless keyboard, mouse on mousepad cut down to roughly the size of a Magic Trackpad (with a larger mousepad on hand for gaming and other precision applications).

[−] opan 47d ago
I don't use a numpad, but a friend of mine swears by them for playing roguelikes. It makes it much easier to move diagonally in a single turn.

If you play any games with keyboard and mouse, you could bind some letters/numbers from the right half of the keyboard and then place the macropad on the left so you don't have to take your hand off the mouse to hit anything.

For another idea, you could bind pgup/pgdn or scroll wheel up and down for scrolling webpages, IRC backlog, etc.

[−] stavros 47d ago
Hmm that's a very good use case, thanks! I'll keep it in mind for next time, I think it wouldn't have occurred to me if you hadn't said it.
[−] tomjakubowski 47d ago
Same with MUDs: a numpad is a critical piece of kit for getting around those rooms with north/northeast/east style exits.
[−] stavros 47d ago
True, but also thank god for speedwalking.
[−] vunderba 47d ago
Roguelikes are a great use case. I used to play Castle of the Winds all the time with a number pad, Shift+7913 fast movement FTW.
[−] tmtvl 47d ago

>

Does anyone here use a numpad?

Yes.

> What for?

Inputting numbers.

The number row is too wide and too offset on a staggered keyboard to really work for me. I'd be interested in trying a full-width ortholinear keyboard, but can't find any.

[−] stavros 47d ago
Oh durr, I forgot about that. I have remapped tilde so when it's held down it turns the right half of my keyboard into a numpad, so I use that for numbers. I guess I was more asking if anyone uses macropads.
[−] jiehong 47d ago
I've personally replaced keymacros by things like Alfred's workflows (or Raycast's): aka a universal command palette.

It's usually very fast to type "cmd-space", and then type 3-4 letters to find the macro I want.

[−] stavros 47d ago
Yeah, I use a similar utility, plus I've built a custom QMK-based keyboard that has extra shortcut layers. I think macropads might still be useful for per-app shortcut layers, but in practice I don't find myself using it that much.
[−] jweather 46d ago
I have a similar sized macropad that I use extensively with AutoHotKey for application-specific shortcuts like clicking on buttons that don't have a keyboard shortcut, or scrolling two panes of a window simultaneously. All things that I could bind a key combo to, but I like having a dedicated button for.
[−] vunderba 47d ago
Quite a bit - I have a bunch of custom shortcuts for musical notation (adding dynamics, expression, etc.) for rapidly entering music into my notation software.
[−] thatguy00 47d ago
Yep, trying to type a long number on the top row is super tedious to me. I just use a layer under my right hand for 10-key.
[−] tsumnia 47d ago
I'll be very curious to see if my research on typing practice [1] will still be relevant in the era of LLMs...

[1] https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/3373165.3373177

[−] smokel 47d ago
What, an article on typing and keyboards, and no mention of Dvorak or Colemak? Let's have that eternal discussion again!

Swap Caps and Ctrl, use Emacs or vi keybindings, and save your wrist from moving to the arrow keys!

[−] captn3m0 47d ago
Good thread to promote: MK Meetup in Berlin at c-Base tomorrow evening (Monday).

https://luma.com/hgwfl3pm

[−] amadeuspagel 47d ago
If you're aware how much knowing to touch type improves your experience of using a desktop, you should also learn to glide type on your phone.
[−] chirayuk 47d ago
The Goldtouch split keyboards worked wonders for me.