The point is not running Windows or Outlook on a PC in space.
The point is that the Software was not sealed, downloading upgrades while in space, sending telemetry back to Microsoft (or to whoever else).
Those PC are like any other instrument onboard the spacecraft: it's status needs to be known and predictable by NASA.
Not to talk about the amount of unknown and unpredictable extra traffic caused by those PCs onto the "space internet links" which can easily clog any other communication.
And not to talk about smartphones.
This is actually rocket (and space) science, not the horse market fair!
Not just space. There was a time around 2000 or so when US military tanks were running Windows NT and they did what one would expect, BSOD Blue Screen of Death. No idea if that ever resulted in casualties.
> After Wiseman flagged the issue, Mission Control said it could remotely access his system with permission.
> Soon after, a member of Mission Control said, "We wanted to let Reid know we are done remoting into his PCD 1." They added that the issue had been resolved and that the system would appear offline, as "expected."
> The personal computing device, or PCD, is how the crew accesses the internet during the flight and tracks its timeline, NASA said on the livestream. The device used on the mission is the MS Surface Pro, per an Artemis II factsheet.
> Used for PFCs (private family conference), PMCs (private medical communication/conference), office apps, DSLR imagery storage, viewing recorded stills/videos on camera controllers
This talk about off-the-shelf hardware in space makes me wonder, given the clear line of sight, if it would be possible to detect their Wi-Fi access points' beacons from Earth. I'm not a "radio guy" and don't know if this would be impossible, simply on the basis of physics, due to the presumably low radiated power from the APs and the limitations of the size of typical antennas on the ground. (Obviously it's possible with the right equipment. We can communicate with the Voyager probes, but that's not with a "can-tenna" and an off-the-shelf Wi-Fi card...)
Edit: Anybody know how difficult it would be to keep an antenna pointed at them? I have no intuition for how fast their transit would be. I assume, since an orbit is around 90 minutes, pretty damned fast.
Edit 2: Some search-engining and back-of-the-envelope not-very-good-at-trig math says the longest possible transit would be about 5 minutes, moving though about 40 degrees of arc / minute. I'm probably completely talking out my ass, though.
It feels like it would be do-able to keep a directional antenna trained on a target moving at that speed.
Everyone likes to point and laugh, sure, I'm getting a chuckle as well.
However, on more practical level, what are other options? Outlook, the desktop application works really well with local copies, is pretty low bandwidth and very familiar to end users.
IMAP with Thunderbird is probably only other option that would satisfy the requirements.
EDIT: Yes they need to get email in space. It's easy way to send documents back and forth.
guys former NASA Mission Control Web Tool Team and OCA here (Orbital Comms Adapter office which was a backroom position)
Crews have been using thinkpad laptops (personal laptops since the 2005) on the ISS and Shuttle. Artemis is likely an extension of this
Laptops go through a long space hardening and verification process. Windows and Outlook is the result of that
We used to do "Mail Syncs" which taking the outlook file and pushing it up to the crews laptop doing a comm window via TDRSS network -that how astronauts got their email
is this high tech - no -does it work and been done for years yes.
Is this actually true? What's next? A BSOD? I would have ever ever in my life bet that Microsoft software could be shipped in a spacecraft carrying human beings. Unbeliveable.
The poor technicians having to RDP with (what I imagine must be) a horrible latency. Although still might be better than some corporate environments lol
I want to say something like "oh well, this is certainly a non-critical piece of software". Hopefully it's the convenient dashboard and there are other, more hardened consoles for fallback or something.
But in all seriousness, and without glibness or sarcasm: I cannot comprehend how there is any "unexpected" software running on that spacecraft, regardless of operating system.
EDIT*** For those who like me only watched the video and didn't read the thread: This is on a laptop that is non-critical, it is not a part of the spacecraft. Whew. Now I'm sad that one of the Linux distros didn't try to pitch themselves to the astronauts for a sponsorship... Would have been especially on brand for Pop_OS.
We migrated earlier this year and had a similar problem. Outlook (classic) works differently than the OWA version. They keep the classic version so people don't spontaneously throw a chair out a window. It's being phased out slowly.
Please imagine the luxury of being SO FAR AWAY from all the crap happening on our planet right now, only to be spoiled by some lousy marketing emails from Microslop hawking their latest Copilot incursion.
It doesn't seem like they are trying to figure out why two copies of outlook are installed, they're trying to figure out why neither is giving them access to their email.
Oh ya I remember how some computer pulled a windows update over a satellite connection during a research flight (aircraft). That was super expensive, wow. Now Microsoft servers are banned at the outgoing point since you couldn’t reliably stop it the computer itself and new teams with new computers come in.
Apollo's computer: Ran in 2 KiB memory! Miniaturized design before microprocessors became widely available! Rope memory for the ROM hand-woven by weaver ladies! Multitasking operating system kernel! Margaret Hamilton coined the term, and practice, of "software engineering" to develop the software for it! Houston had to debug it from the ground!
Artemis's computer: [theme from Curb Your Enthusiasm plays]
This is a known Outlook pain point it's notoriously sensitive to network configuration, especially on high-latency or intermittent connections. I have been using Emclient past two years for my business, works so much better
Wasn’t it Bill Gates’ dream that every coffee machine should run Windows? I guess he’s got his wish. Also, redundancy: Imagine going into space and then have no email! Can’t let that happen.
with all that money, they could have selected or designed a power efficient arm soc and installed a custom linux that was power efficient and built for stability. It would have been a net positive for everyone in FOSS.
Instead they slapped some winshit together and told the astronauts to deal with it...
at least they aren't manually shitting into bags for this mission.
It's insane to me that microsoft licensing for large companies and mission-critical systems operators doesn't include a stripped down version of windows that really just provides the NT kernel and window system. Why on earth is MS telemetry running in space LOL
Due to the immense resources NASA has why would they ever deploy this bloated software on spaceships? Wouldnt it make more sense to fork some open source project and slim it down and adapt it perfectly to their needs?
They have also been having audio issues...that are very very VERYY reminiscent of Microsoft audio driver issues I run into all the time while gaming...
366 comments
Not to talk about the amount of unknown and unpredictable extra traffic caused by those PCs onto the "space internet links" which can easily clog any other communication.
And not to talk about smartphones.
This is actually rocket (and space) science, not the horse market fair!
metered connectionoption was toggled on.> it's status needs to be known and predictable by NASA
Ah yes but do you think MS gives a flap about this?
Same thing with the recent Fedramp certification. "Hey they're using it so we might as well certify"
> After Wiseman flagged the issue, Mission Control said it could remotely access his system with permission.
> Soon after, a member of Mission Control said, "We wanted to let Reid know we are done remoting into his PCD 1." They added that the issue had been resolved and that the system would appear offline, as "expected."
> The personal computing device, or PCD, is how the crew accesses the internet during the flight and tracks its timeline, NASA said on the livestream. The device used on the mission is the MS Surface Pro, per an Artemis II factsheet.
The factsheet:
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20230017638/downloads/13...
> Used for PFCs (private family conference), PMCs (private medical communication/conference), office apps, DSLR imagery storage, viewing recorded stills/videos on camera controllers
Edit: Anybody know how difficult it would be to keep an antenna pointed at them? I have no intuition for how fast their transit would be. I assume, since an orbit is around 90 minutes, pretty damned fast.
Edit 2: Some search-engining and back-of-the-envelope not-very-good-at-trig math says the longest possible transit would be about 5 minutes, moving though about 40 degrees of arc / minute. I'm probably completely talking out my ass, though.
It feels like it would be do-able to keep a directional antenna trained on a target moving at that speed.
However, on more practical level, what are other options? Outlook, the desktop application works really well with local copies, is pretty low bandwidth and very familiar to end users.
IMAP with Thunderbird is probably only other option that would satisfy the requirements.
EDIT: Yes they need to get email in space. It's easy way to send documents back and forth.
Crews have been using thinkpad laptops (personal laptops since the 2005) on the ISS and Shuttle. Artemis is likely an extension of this
Laptops go through a long space hardening and verification process. Windows and Outlook is the result of that
We used to do "Mail Syncs" which taking the outlook file and pushing it up to the crews laptop doing a comm window via TDRSS network -that how astronauts got their email
is this high tech - no -does it work and been done for years yes.
Moon landing 2026: Two instances of MS Outlook sort of started themselves on the guidance computer and we have no idea why.
But in all seriousness, and without glibness or sarcasm: I cannot comprehend how there is any "unexpected" software running on that spacecraft, regardless of operating system.
EDIT*** For those who like me only watched the video and didn't read the thread: This is on a laptop that is non-critical, it is not a part of the spacecraft. Whew. Now I'm sad that one of the Linux distros didn't try to pitch themselves to the astronauts for a sponsorship... Would have been especially on brand for Pop_OS.
It's silly but never causes me issues, I just close the second one. Haven't ever figured out why it happens.
Did the Artemis crew any side effects / problems tied to Outlook?
It doesn't seem like they are trying to figure out why two copies of outlook are installed, they're trying to figure out why neither is giving them access to their email.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/4pywzk/did_r...
Artemis's computer: [theme from Curb Your Enthusiasm plays]
Sounds like "computer driving Artemis spacecraft" while is is realy "some computer onboard Artemis spacecraft".
Very big difference.
Instead they slapped some winshit together and told the astronauts to deal with it...
at least they aren't manually shitting into bags for this mission.
But here we're talking about actual space rockets flying to space with humans in them.
My expectation would be that something like https://tigerstyle.dev/ would be followed or the NASA rules linked from there https://spinroot.com/gerard/pdf/P10.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zpCOYkdvTQ
Andy Meyers @andymeyers10.bsky.social · 3h I said “launch window”, not “Launch Windows”!