I worked for Equifax many moons ago. They had a problem with people taking jobs there that no one else wanted, solely to gain access to their systems and reset their own credit scores. And, for some reason, they couldn’t roll it back once found out. Great company.
I love that it's a freeze not a purge. And that it's opt-out to have surreptitiously collected data being used against your livelihood.
The data breach should have been reason enough to ban Equifax and force them to destroy their data. But that can only be done when the government works for the people, instead of money.
The "best" part of the "The Work Number" is your employer can opt you in without any notification. The last time I worked for someone else's company, I specifically asked before I started if they shared my salary info with any credit agencies. The HR rep: "No we do not!" Guess what? They, or likely their payroll provider (ADP?) did.
I am now a partner in a consultancy. Despite my prior comments, we have still not yet gotten off Gusto. Pasted from a July 2024 e-mail Gusto sent me:
We are making updates to our Payroll Terms of Service to address relevant laws and regulations and include information about new products and features, including our new employment and income verification feature. The updated terms will go into effect for current customers on July 31, 2024.
You can review the full updated terms here.
The new employment and income verification feature
When your employees apply for loans, credit cards, or public aid they may be required to provide proof of employment and income and, as the employer, you often need to manually provide verifications during the approval process. With this update, you can save time and help your employees get faster access by automating employment and income verifications through our new partnership with The Work Number®.
No action is needed from you. This benefit is included in your current Gusto payroll subscription and there are no additional fees. As the employer, you can choose to turn off this new feature in the Settings tab at any time. The feature will be available on July 31, 2024. Learn more >
Thank you for choosing Gusto!
So my team, none of whom were ever explicitly asked for their consent to share their salary info, were about to have Gusto helpfully share it for them. Thanks Gusto!
I (angrily) opted my company out, but I'm probably the only partner in the company who would have gone out of their way to do that.
As a European, it is wild to see a private company warning that disallowing them the ability to process your personal data might hinder your ability to access social services.
I hate that I have to opt out of this stuff that I never signed up for and never would have. I filed the request to freeze, and see that it will require me uploading many more pieces of data to prove identity and address. Disgusting.
Thank you for the link. I tried to opt out. They sent me this email:
Equifax Workforce Solutions (provider of The Work Number) has received your employee request communication, but additional information described below is required to fulfill this request.
We will be following up with a secure email to obtain the below requested documents:
Proof of Identity:
Provide a copy of one of the following (must include current/legal name):
- Driver's License (must be current)
- Paystubs (must be dated within 60 days)
- State or Government Identification Card (must be current)
- Social Security Card
- Military Identification Card
- Passport (must be issued from U.S.A. and be current)
- W-2 or 1099 Form (most current year)
- Birth Certificate
Proof of Address:
If you are requesting an Employment Data Report (EDR) or selected ‘Mail’ as your preferred method of contact,provide a copy of one of the following (must include current mailing address and be issued within the past 60 days)
- Driver's License (must be current)
- Paystub
- W-2 or 1099 Form (most current year)
- Utility Bill (phone, water, gas, electric, trash or sewer, etc.)
- Housing Rental Agreement or Mortgage document - your name must be listed on the document
For Identity Theft Block Requests, along with Proof of Identity and Proof of Address (if applicable), please provide your identity theft report and designation of items to be blocked:
- Identity Theft Report (police report, FTC Identity Theft Report, Police report, or United States Postal Inspection Service)
For Human Trafficking Victim Block Requests ONLY, along with Proof of Identity and Proof of Address (if applicable), please provide victim determination documentation (as described below), and designation of items to be blocked.
Victim Determination Documentation:
Provide a copy of one of the following victim determination documentation confirming that you were a victim of human trafficking, such as:
- Determinations made by federal, state, tribal, or local governments, government agencies, or law enforcement
- Determinations by non-governmental entities or task forces authorized by a governmental agency to make such a determination
- Self-attestation signed or certified by such governmental agency or non-governmental entity
- Determination by court in a case where a central issue is whether you are a victim of human trafficking. (Court documents can be made up of several documents from the court case that together show that the court accepted as true or finding no genuine dispute that you were a victim of human trafficking.)
We will be following up with a secure email to obtain the requested documents.
Data Investigation Team
Equifax Workforce Solutions
Many years ago, back when companies could ask for your previous compensation [0], a hiring manager once said to me "don't ever lie about your past compensation".
I wasn't sure how they could figure this out at the time until someone later pointed out that many corporations do a credit history check on you as part of the background check. This gives them access to past compensation.
The information asymmetry here is, as with much of hiring, pretty bonkers when they had both the current and past comp history during negotiations when you have just yours. You might also have the comp history of your friends too (if you share) but that's still tiny compared to the corporations.
0 - this was in NYC where it's now no longer allowed.
There was a story recently about how large landlords use salary data to raise rents. If they see you got a raise, they’ll increase your rent accordingly. And pretty soon, retailers will do the same. Your personalized price for a gallon of milk at Walmart will reflect your annual raise. I love living in the future!
I wonder if the winning game becomes your own boss and tiny companies.
I want to do the jump, but lack of courage, good ideas, sales skills and a very good salary still holding me back (open for suggestions).
But if the very good salary would go away, the scales tip instantly.
This is a very complex problem as far as I can understand.
You will be in trouble if that person left their last job because they were unhappy about pay or if the value you are giving is lower than some other company is willing to pay.
They will leave pretty soon in both cases.
Or even worse, they might be in a hurry to find a job for some reason, then they will accept but see the job as temporary.
Would be interesting to know how this actually effects job market.
As far as I know there are websites for employees to declare how much their employers are paying them. Also would be interesting to know how that actually effects job market.
I didn't see this before but would be cool to have a website to see how much money people around me are paying for rent too.
Here in Sweden, your tax filings are public information; companies can just ask the government what you made last year. I have no idea if they actually do, though, and the data will be somewhat obfuscated if you have extra income on the side.
Between this and algorithmic pricing, I envision a future where every penny of your finances is know to both employers and retailers, and together they ensure that you only ever have as much purchasing power as the "free market" decides you should have.
I'm not seeing how this matters, they were already doing that - the market is a big auction to work out the overlap between lowest salary employees will work for and the highest salary employers will offer. In that process employees also use data to figure out the highest salary that will be offered. The thing forcing employers to pay the salary they do is that if they offer less someone else will gazump them for the employee's time. It has nothing to do with the circumstances of the employees lifestyle. The lifestyle adjusts to the salary.
You can tell them your past compensation, and if they dig in and you signed an agreement, tell them it included bonuses. Don't tell how much of your salary was compensation vs bonus.
If your HR software is the same that does payroll and does hiring for your company and many others, it's almost garunteed a flag goes up when you apply to another job with a different company.
It is not up to employer to tell me what to accept. If they lowball me, odds are high that I will just not accept it, or if I do, I will be sure to leave them as soon as I get a more reasonable offer, preferably in the middle of a project with no notice beyond what any prior agreement calls for. I will treat them the way they treat me.
People tend to think that income taxes lower your salary. While in practice employers know exactly for how little money (in hand) you are willing to work and in absence of income taxes would just pay this much less so that your money in hand is the same.
As an employee you should fight for income taxes to be as high as possible since they are neutral for you and might fund useful things for all. When left in the pocket of your employer they just become their takeaway. Employers won't spend it on improving the company if they don't have to. And the only things that force them to spend money in a predictable manner is regulation and markey opportunity to earn more. When they have those needs they mostly do it with credit anyways.
Conversely as an employer you should advocate for lowest income taxes possible for your workers.
One of the often-overlooked terms of use that people ignore when accessing a payroll processing / human resources website is that the company providing those services can "share" your data with "trusted partners" which essentially allows them to move your income and other personal information to other entities which, in turn, sell that information to anyone who is willing to pay.
It's one of the more abusive uses of click-through agreements - in order to get paid, you have to login and setup your payroll information, and in order to login, you have to click through and agree to these terms, and there is no way to opt out during or after the process.
What I find funny about this is that stories have been floating around for *years* about HFT/quant firms specifically hiring quants to work out what the lowest they can pay people in the firm is, and still keep them.
> … said the company “does not use algorithmic wage-setting tools to make compensation decisions for our employees or to set new-hire salaries.”
When the HR/CRM/ERP/whatever internal software has the plan to compute these metrics and they display it as metadata next to the people’s names, it’s hard not to curious « just to check ». Maybe it’s not in the company policy but you can never be sure of individuals actions (especially big corps as mentioned in the article)
296 comments
Freeze Your Data - The Work Number https://employees.theworknumber.com/employee-data-freeze
As I understand it, payroll whores your salary out to Equifax*, who then pimps it to others
* Yeah, that one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Equifax_data_breach
The data breach should have been reason enough to ban Equifax and force them to destroy their data. But that can only be done when the government works for the people, instead of money.
The Work Number is in fact Equifax.
I am now a partner in a consultancy. Despite my prior comments, we have still not yet gotten off Gusto. Pasted from a July 2024 e-mail Gusto sent me:
So my team, none of whom were ever explicitly asked for their consent to share their salary info, were about to have Gusto helpfully share it for them. Thanks Gusto!I (angrily) opted my company out, but I'm probably the only partner in the company who would have gone out of their way to do that.
So, theoretically some employees have a requirement upon them to fill this in.
Equifax Workforce Solutions (provider of The Work Number) has received your employee request communication, but additional information described below is required to fulfill this request.
We will be following up with a secure email to obtain the below requested documents:
Proof of Identity:
Provide a copy of one of the following (must include current/legal name):
- Driver's License (must be current) - Paystubs (must be dated within 60 days) - State or Government Identification Card (must be current) - Social Security Card - Military Identification Card - Passport (must be issued from U.S.A. and be current) - W-2 or 1099 Form (most current year) - Birth Certificate
Proof of Address:
If you are requesting an Employment Data Report (EDR) or selected ‘Mail’ as your preferred method of contact,provide a copy of one of the following (must include current mailing address and be issued within the past 60 days)
- Driver's License (must be current) - Paystub - W-2 or 1099 Form (most current year) - Utility Bill (phone, water, gas, electric, trash or sewer, etc.) - Housing Rental Agreement or Mortgage document - your name must be listed on the document
For Identity Theft Block Requests, along with Proof of Identity and Proof of Address (if applicable), please provide your identity theft report and designation of items to be blocked:
- Identity Theft Report (police report, FTC Identity Theft Report, Police report, or United States Postal Inspection Service)
For Human Trafficking Victim Block Requests ONLY, along with Proof of Identity and Proof of Address (if applicable), please provide victim determination documentation (as described below), and designation of items to be blocked.
Victim Determination Documentation:
Provide a copy of one of the following victim determination documentation confirming that you were a victim of human trafficking, such as:
- Determinations made by federal, state, tribal, or local governments, government agencies, or law enforcement - Determinations by non-governmental entities or task forces authorized by a governmental agency to make such a determination - Self-attestation signed or certified by such governmental agency or non-governmental entity - Determination by court in a case where a central issue is whether you are a victim of human trafficking. (Court documents can be made up of several documents from the court case that together show that the court accepted as true or finding no genuine dispute that you were a victim of human trafficking.)
We will be following up with a secure email to obtain the requested documents.
Data Investigation Team Equifax Workforce Solutions
Also, to prevent them from sharing the information, you need to give them even more information. Disgusting that this is allowed.
> Job Applications > Employers may delay making a job offer if they cannot verify your data on The Work Number.
If by doing this, can employers legally discriminate against you?
I wasn't sure how they could figure this out at the time until someone later pointed out that many corporations do a credit history check on you as part of the background check. This gives them access to past compensation.
The information asymmetry here is, as with much of hiring, pretty bonkers when they had both the current and past comp history during negotiations when you have just yours. You might also have the comp history of your friends too (if you share) but that's still tiny compared to the corporations.
0 - this was in NYC where it's now no longer allowed.
I want to do the jump, but lack of courage, good ideas, sales skills and a very good salary still holding me back (open for suggestions). But if the very good salary would go away, the scales tip instantly.
You will be in trouble if that person left their last job because they were unhappy about pay or if the value you are giving is lower than some other company is willing to pay.
They will leave pretty soon in both cases.
Or even worse, they might be in a hurry to find a job for some reason, then they will accept but see the job as temporary.
Would be interesting to know how this actually effects job market.
As far as I know there are websites for employees to declare how much their employers are paying them. Also would be interesting to know how that actually effects job market.
I didn't see this before but would be cool to have a website to see how much money people around me are paying for rent too.
Here in Sweden, your tax filings are public information; companies can just ask the government what you made last year. I have no idea if they actually do, though, and the data will be somewhat obfuscated if you have extra income on the side.
- $30k for anything that helps my community / humanity
- $100k for anything harmless that I just don't give a damn about
- 3 million per month after tax to work on weapons of war
https://www.workday.com/en-us/products/payroll/overview.html
I would not trust applying for any company with workday.
As an employee you should fight for income taxes to be as high as possible since they are neutral for you and might fund useful things for all. When left in the pocket of your employer they just become their takeaway. Employers won't spend it on improving the company if they don't have to. And the only things that force them to spend money in a predictable manner is regulation and markey opportunity to earn more. When they have those needs they mostly do it with credit anyways.
Conversely as an employer you should advocate for lowest income taxes possible for your workers.
Tech companies seem to get it but so few others do, including startups.
I usually have 1/3rd the staff I'd normally need but I hire top tier people at 2x what most startups pay. In the end I save money.
It's one of the more abusive uses of click-through agreements - in order to get paid, you have to login and setup your payroll information, and in order to login, you have to click through and agree to these terms, and there is no way to opt out during or after the process.
> … said the company “does not use algorithmic wage-setting tools to make compensation decisions for our employees or to set new-hire salaries.”
When the HR/CRM/ERP/whatever internal software has the plan to compute these metrics and they display it as metadata next to the people’s names, it’s hard not to curious « just to check ». Maybe it’s not in the company policy but you can never be sure of individuals actions (especially big corps as mentioned in the article)