Is Germany's gold safe in New York ? (dw.com)

by KnuthIsGod 277 comments 239 points
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277 comments

[−] PowerElectronix 39d ago
The fact that this question needs asking tells a lot about how other countries see the current administration.
[−] roenxi 39d ago
They've been asking this question since before 2013. The writing has been on the wall since the US started demonstrating that it thinks debt monetisation is an acceptable strategy.
[−] gchamonlive 39d ago
Have outlets like Deutsche Welle been speaking like this since 2013? I don't really think so. Not to defend the past administrations, but that the question is starting to hit mainstream media does in fact tell a huge lot about this current one.
[−] Spooky23 39d ago
It a little different now. POTUS may not be put to bed before the sundowners hits and decide to order his minions to seize the gold on truth social.
[−] pjc50 39d ago
Debt monetization is not happening. There's been significant expansion of the money supply, which got the US through COVID at a one-off cost of about 10% inflation in one year, which I think was a reasonable cost of covering the crisis (especially compared to the GDP response in less generous countries!)

What's happening is a much simpler, more drastic concern: does the US respect its international commitments?

[−] AnimalMuppet 39d ago
"Debt monetization" and "seizing other countries' gold" are somewhat orthogonal.
[−] RobotToaster 39d ago
This question has needed asking since 1971, when Nixon "temporarily" ended USD gold convertibility, if not before.
[−] torben-friis 39d ago
Today, a large national poll in Spain showed trump as the largest national threat identified by citizens (81% agree), placing him well above putin. This is consistent even among right wing voters (71%). People also place "American military actions" and "global economic crisis caused by the US" as the largest global risks.
[−] wdr1 39d ago

> The fact that this question needs asking tells a lot about how other countries see the current administration.

Not really. You just weren't paying attention before. To wit, countries (including Germany!) have been questioning the safety of storing gold in the United State long before the Trump administration.

Examples 2012: Venezuela Receives Last Shipment of Repatriated Gold Bars https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-01-31/venezuela...

2013: Bundesbank to retrieve $200bn of gold reserves (Bundesbank is Germany’s independent central bank) https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/15/bundesbank-ret...

2014: Netherlands moves 122.5 from New York https://www.dutchnews.nl/2016/02/85796-2/

There's obviously more, but that gives you a sense of it.

[−] lwhi 39d ago
Trump is seen as an unpredictable, fickle, spiteful and erratic, dictator.
[−] igor_akhmetov 39d ago
The EU themselves "froze" (essentially confiscated) Russian assets, both state and private.
[−] mathgradthrow 39d ago
Does this question need asking?
[−] devsda 39d ago
Probably safe as long as Germany is amenable to supporting "American interests" which can be anything and everything as decided by a human RNG they choose to elect.
[−] jmyeet 39d ago
We don't even need to theorize how this can go wrong. We've got a real example: the French CFA system that is used to do economic colonialism in West Africa [1]. Basically, it works like this:

14 French-speaking Africian former colonies keep significant (>50%) of their gold reserves with the French treasury and use the CFA Franc as a currency, which is pegged to the Euro.

The colonial model is one of discouraging or even outright banning being self-sufficient. Crops that might otherwise feed the local populace are replaced to exportable cash crops. In particular, that's the World Bank/IMF model of "helping".

Anyway, Germany isn't a US imperial interest in the same way Cote d'Ivoire is for France... yet. Still, there are other mechanisms beyond gold that the US uses to influence or even control Germany (ie NATO).

[1]: https://www.brookings.edu/articles/how-the-france-backed-afr...

[−] apples_oranges 39d ago
I want America to go back to being as it was before
[−] surgical_fire 39d ago
Of course not, it is a profoundly untrustworthy country.

How they dealt with Iran is how I expect them to deal with everyone else - They started bombing the country during negotiations.

What is amazing is that they just didn't seize Germany's gold yet.

[−] mrlonglong 39d ago
Pull it.

The French sold theirs and bought new stock on the European market.

[−] KellyCriterion 39d ago
isnt the question more like: "Is it _still_ there?"

:-))

[−] bell-cot 39d ago
For Germany's national interests, the ideal probably would have been repatriation back in early 2010. A decade after Poland had joined NATO, half a decade after the Baltic States had - the threat of Russia somehow seizing the gold was at a nadir. The 2007-9 fiscal crisis was safely past, the Euro crisis not yet too dire, Obama was in the White House, and the winds were otherwise favorable for quietly sailing Germany's gold back home.

Second best might have been for Germany to get its gold back in mid-2021 - Biden in the White House, but events of 6 Jan '21 making it really obvious that the US wasn't nearly so stable as in the good old days.

Vs. raising the subject now*, with a very temperamental administration in Washington, feels ill-advised. Though I'm probably marking myself as a senile idealist, to even think of a national gov't, or leading media outlet, intelligently working for its nation's long-term interests.

From another angle, I could see leaving it in NYC as a symptom of advanced calcification of Germany's politics and gov't bureaucracy. Moving the gold home would require major decisions, real organizing, and competent execution. Vs. the relative do-nothing of inaction, forever turning the crank of old routines, is so much easier.

*Yes, I noticed the article's 2 Feb 2026 date.

[−] fmajid 39d ago
Of course not. That's why Charles de Gaulle repatriated French gold from the New York Fed in the 1960s. Before Trump, there was Nixon, the US has form in reneging on its commitments.

It seems there are still 138 tons of gold left over that will be recovered by 2028:

https://www.mining.com/france-pulls-last-gold-held-in-us-for...

[−] SanjayMehta 39d ago
Charles de Gaulle warned of French gold deposits being at risk, his successor sent French warships to recover French gold. That was decades ago.

I think the question is moot now.

Update: corrected a bit of history.

[−] lo_fye 39d ago
Betteridge's Law of Headlines states that any headline ending in a question mark can be answered with "no".
[−] gloosx 39d ago
Am I missing something but I can't see full article? All I see is like a 100 words preview, is this the whole thing?
[−] fredgrott 39d ago
its the wrong question!

The question should why has not Germany pulled gold out to server two goals:

1. Financial gain 2. another step towards economic independence from USA

France already did the right thing....

Pay attention, as it does not hurt the world and economic system for multiple world reserve currencies to exist....EU might as be a reserve currency.

[−] OutOfHere 39d ago
What would Germany want if it were to get attacked by Russia with the US conspicuously missing from NATO?
[−] KingOfCoders 39d ago
No.
[−] andrewstuart 39d ago
Germany should ask for its gold in 3 years from now.
[−] jjgreen 39d ago
Not really "should Germany move it?", rather "can Germany move it?"
[−] dingdingdang 39d ago
Having your stuff stored in another country is ultimately a voucher of confidence, I can't see Trump or anyone else willingly misusing that trust. I do think the Western leaders need to temper their tendencies for isolationism these days, what's the alternative guys? And why even think that other people/cultures will want you in their swimming-pool if you can't keep your own one clean/functional?

(this comment also covers France recently bringing home their gold)

[−] wolvoleo 39d ago
With Trump? Obviously not. The rule of law doesn't concern him. They should remove it asap like France.
[−] josefritzishere 39d ago
Betteridge's law of headlines is an adage that states: "Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no.
[−] pseudohadamard 38d ago
"Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no". Betteridge has never been more on-point.
[−] t1234s 39d ago
not according to Die Hard 3
[−] dist-epoch 39d ago
Trump is literally saying stuff like:

"We're going to take all of their oil. And there is nothing they can do about it..."

[−] Rantenki 39d ago
If a headline asks a question, the answer is always "NO".

Ahhh crap.

[−] jbverschoor 39d ago
It wasn’t safe in the 70s lol
[−] 8593376393 39d ago
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[−] darshil2023 39d ago
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[−] fleroviumna 39d ago
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[−] 0x3f 39d ago
Not really Trump-specific is it, given Europe seized a ton of Russian assets. Maybe they just realized how easy that was and that nobody is going to war over it.
[−] mathgradthrow 39d ago
This is the dumbest thing that has ever been posted on this site.
[−] bighead1 39d ago
You could replace the word Germany with the US and this article would still make sense.
[−] MagicMoonlight 39d ago
It’s brave to assume the gold is still there. Nobody checks it; last time they did, a bunch of bars were made of tungsten.

If you’re someone guarding the gold, you’d have to be stupid not to replace it with tungsten. A single bar is a lifetime of wages. It’s not like anyone will ever notice, it’s a reserve that will never be spent.