US reputation hits 'depths not seen this century' – and 'may never recover' (rawstory.com)

by doener 66 comments 77 points
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66 comments

[−] dtagames 39d ago
We've also lifted the veil on the myth that we were a unstoppable military power. We look silly saying, day after day, that the war is over, they're powerless, etc while the same channel shows that's not true.

The folks least impressed right now are China and Russia, who must surely see a new system of regional powers operating in their own spheres, not a single global power which is apparently a historical fiction.

The excellent book, Clash of Civilizations predicted this move to regional powers versus the 50's simple East/West divide, along with many other current events we see now. It was written 30 years ago.

[−] stvltvs 39d ago
The US is relatively weak without its allies. NATO was the real superpower in the west. The current regime got too big for their britches and tried to go it alone.
[−] SanjayMehta 39d ago
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[−] bulbar 38d ago

> The only leverage NATO would be able to provide the US today would be political.

Not sure what you are saying. NATO provides critical support for the Iran war by allowing the US having military bases in their countries.

[−] SanjayMehta 38d ago
Spain is showing some spine. Italy and France too. Germany made a statement abhoring the attacks on Iran.

Is this not getting reported in your countries? Colour me surprised.

More will follow as Trump descends into further insanity.

[−] flowerthoughts 38d ago
Rheinmetall stock is up 1,439% and Saab is up 991% since February 2022. European defense materials companies are ramping up just fine.
[−] SanjayMehta 38d ago
Stock prices are reflection of what speculators expect to happen. So the depleted munitions thanks to Ukraine and the drive to get some independence from an unreliable Trump regime makes this unsurprising.
[−] pseudohadamard 38d ago
It depends whether you believe the paper strength or actual strength. On paper the Russian army was the second most powerful in the world. In practice it's the second most powerful in Ukraine. On paper the US army is the most powerful in the world. In practice they've been brought to a standstill by a third-rate power in the middle east. Before that in Vietnam, Iraq, and by something that's barely a country, Afghanistan. Some years ago I saw a Vietnamese film about the American War in which an NVA officer told his men "kill them and keep killing them until they stop coming". It doesn't matter how many expensive toys you have if the other side is determined to outlast you.

And don't forget who makes up NATO. Would you want to go up against someone like the Finns? Ask any US troops who have trained with them.

[−] SanjayMehta 38d ago
"How many Oreshniks do the Finns have?" To modernise Stalin.

I know this is hard for you to comprehend, but Russia is absolutely wrecking The Ukraine and by extension the NATO vassal states in Europe. It's hard for you to comprehend because your propaganda machines are incredibly effective, and your statements and questions show that you're incapable of looking at the other side and the other side is reality.

[−] karmakurtisaani 38d ago

> The excellent book, Clash of Civilizations predicted this move to regional powers versus the 50's simple East/West divide, along with many other current events we see now. It was written 30 years ago.

Did it get many predictions wrong? That's also pretty important, no?

[−] smitty1e 39d ago
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[−] incognito_robot 38d ago
Why was the submission flagged (genuinely wondering)?
[−] f30e3dfed1c9 39d ago
Lots of Americans don't get it yet but what we're living through is the end of what was sometimes called the "post-war international order" that began in 1945. America's allies in western Europe have been deliberately alienated and our electorate has shown itself to be too volatile, unpredictable, and frankly dumb to elect a trustworthy government.

Intelligence-sharing from countries once, and still sort of nominally, our allies has been curtailed because no one can trust that information shared with us won't make its way to other countries that do not wish them well. That trust will take decades to rebuild if in fact it can be, and by that time, the world will be a very different place.

The current administration is in the grip of religious fanatics with delusional, apocalyptic views of the world, as is much of the political party they come from. Nobody sensible trusts people like that, nor should they. It will take a generation to remove these people from political power, and it's far from clear that a majority of the electorate even wants to.

Meanwhile, the US is gutting the science and education infrastructure that was rightly the envy of the world and making itself hostile to immigrants from nearly the entire world, when being a draw to the best and brightest served it so well for so long. Again, damage being done in a matter of years will take decades to recover from.

It's not time to pack it in but it is time to recognize that America does not now and will in all likelihood never again hold the place in the world it did from 1945 to 2017. The America that most adults alive now grew up in is gone and the one their children and grandchildren will inhabit will likely be much diminished.

Didn't have to happen but that's where we are and we brought it on ourselves.

[−] Yizahi 38d ago
Well, what did they expect, electing a demented person to rule them all, and then voluntarily surrendering legislative and judicial power to him too. A deliberate suicide for a country. Bet they showed those libturds who's da boss :) .
[−] oldpersonintx2 39d ago
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[−] jmclnx 39d ago
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[−] dragonwriter 39d ago

> I think if the GOP looses big in 2026 to the point Trump can be impeached and removed from office and his minions are convicted for corruption, I think it will recover.

Assuming party-line voting on the issue with no defections from either party, that requires the Democrats to win 33 of the 35 Senate seats up for election (if they hold every one that they currently hold, it requires them to take 20 of the 22 Republican-held seats.)

> I believe the world is waiting for Nov 2026 before making big changes.

I don't think the world is waiting at all, it is just taking time to work out the shape of the big changes, whether its European defense integration to replace the historically-pivotal role of the US, or any of large number of other changes nations are actively and openly working on.

Now, if the present direction of the US changes, some of those efforts may be abandoned or deprioritized, but "could potentially stop work" is not the same thing as "waiting to start".

[−] jmclnx 39d ago

>Assuming party-line voting on the issue with no defections from either party, that requires the Democrats to win 33

I know, it is very unlikely this will happen. But I was just pointing out what I think needs to happen for the article to be wrong.

And someone in another comment brought up the military. A failing/fascist US with its military is something I really worry about for the world. I think Nov 2026 is the last chance the US has to change path.

[−] lo_fye 39d ago
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[−] anotheraccount9 39d ago
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[−] SanjayMehta 39d ago
The fact that the protagonist in this lament ever thought that the US was even once considered benevolent is risible.

That's the problem with USAian politicians and bureaucrats.

They have no education, no cultural knowledge, and lack the ability and the desire to understand the other side. They always act as if they don't have to OR project their own malicious intentions onto others.

We should give credit to Trump for ripping off the thin mask of US "diplomacy."

[−] MarkusQ 39d ago
So the story is... a publication that opposes the party currently in power, quoting a few people from the side that's presently out of power, saying that their being out of power is really bad, and we may never recover?

How is this different than the whining we get when the roles are reversed?

I realize you folks hate each other, but it would be nice if either of you could talk about something without turning it into a rant about how great, noble and good your side is and how awful the other side is.

[−] AnimalMuppet 39d ago
To someone neutral (yeah, humor me), the Trump administration has done far more to demolish the reputation of the US than any other administration in my lifetime (OK, maybe Nixon - I don't remember all that much about him firsthand).

But I would also say that Biden, while not as bad as Trump, was worse than anybody since Nixon.

[−] myvoiceismypass 38d ago
Which of Biden's policies and actions did you find worse than any since Nixon? And where do you rank the Iraq debacle that Bush started? How about selling arms to Iran to fund the Contras in Nicaragua?
[−] AnimalMuppet 38d ago
Remember what we're talking about. It's not about their policies per se, it's about what they do to the US's international reputation.

So what did Biden do? The botched withdrawal from Afghanistan was the biggest thing. But his own frailty didn't help (speech fumbling and falling on stairs). Yeah, I know, his personal frailty shouldn't affect the US's reputation. But I think it did.

[−] myvoiceismypass 38d ago
Trump negotiated the Afghanistan withdrawal. Nearly all blame goes to him. Try again.
[−] AnimalMuppet 38d ago
But didn't implement it.

I mean, yes, the fact that we were leaving at all is due to Trump. (Either credit or blame, depending on whether you think we should have stayed there.) But the absolute debacle of how we left is on Biden. And it's that debacle that tarnished the reputation of the US.

[−] myvoiceismypass 37d ago

> And it's that debacle that tarnished the reputation of the US.

Worse than any since Nixon?

[−] ggm 39d ago
Admitting it can wain admits the concepts of waxing and waining, which admits the concept of waxing. It could rise again. it depends how bad the other choices become exploiting their new found international reputation.

Also, it was built on useful largesse. I think the beginning of the end to me (I am sure it predates this, but this is when I became more conscious of it) was when the funding of the UN dried up because militant american christianity hates women's reproductive rights. That was a massive flip in posture towards a rational approach to improved health in Africa and for what? For a short term domestic agenda. The UN systematic corruption and money laundering was a huge issue but what motivated the change wasn't "cleaning up the UN" it was putting contraception back in the box.

[edit: "this century" meaning "in the last 25 years" because during the Vietnam era, American reputation was pretty low worldwide. I keep forgetting we're in a new century. The war on sex was President-pro-tem Nancy Reagan era stuff.]

[−] tkel 39d ago
People often prioritize "reputation" over other things, as if it is politically actionable or tangible. It's not, and it's a projection of peoples' personal feelings onto the actions of a nation-state. Honestly, it's odd behavior. To identify with a nation-state so strongly to care about it's "reputation" over actual material measures. It's parasocial and indicitave of people treating politics as a consumer form of entertainment, and not something they engage in in their daily lives. As if you were a foreign diplomat, might be the only time "reputation" mattered in the way that people talk about it.
[−] AnimalMuppet 39d ago
Internationally, reputation is, essentially, your country's track record projected forward in other nations' thinking. It's their expectation value for how you will behave in the future.

People prioritize reputation because that's pretty much all there is to go on. Treaties? Sure, but how likely is the country to keep the terms of it? Agreements? Same question. Place for investments? How good is the rule of law there, and how likely is that to continue? Those are reputation questions; that is, they are questions about future behavior as predicted by past behavior.