Germany Power Prices Turn Deeply Negative on Renewables Surge (bloomberg.com)

by rustoo 98 comments 79 points
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98 comments

[−] Dagonfly 38d ago
So many questionable comments in here.

Negative prices have no effect on grid stability. It just means that the day-ahead market was cleared below 0, i.e. for every consumer (buyer) there is a producer (seller) selling at this price. The market is still balanced with consumption==production.

Now, you can ask the question: Why are so many producers willing to sell below 0? That has to do with misplaced incentives. For older or home-installed renewables there is a feed-in tarrif which guarantees a fixed revenue at all times. So there is an incentive to sell even for negative market prices. Newer installations can't opt for the guaranteed revenue model with revenue during negative prices any more.

Redispatch follows afterwards, if the market result clashes with physics: The physical grid can't transport the power from producer to consumer. There was no unusual amount of redispatch during easter.

Source: I work on this stuff.

[−] thyristan 38d ago

> It just means that the day-ahead market was cleared below 0

No, it doesn't. The article is explicitly about intraday-prices. So day-ahead clearance made invalid assumptions about generations and consumption that were not met during the day. This kind of miscalculation does require additional (costly) redispatch measures to mitigate the overproduction, and it can affect grid stability.

[−] Dagonfly 38d ago
You are right that intraday went even more negative than day-ahead. But I disagree about the rest of your comment. A spread between day-ahead and intraday does not imply additional redispatch. Only some of it might have been countertrading by the grid operators.

The redispatch was not extraordinary: https://energy-charts.info/charts/power_redispatch/chart.htm...

[−] leonidasrup 38d ago
[−] eigenspace 38d ago
Germany experiences negative electricity prices on a near daily basis now from spring through fall.

This weekend, prices were more negative than usual, but still not that negative.

[−] leonidasrup 38d ago
It really depends on the size and placement of the oversupply, this could cause localized grid overloading.

"However, BDEW warned that around half of the new capacity came in the form of small-scale systems under 100 kilowatt each, which under current rules feed into the grid whatever they produce, without the option to curtail production when this is necessary to ensure grid stability."

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/germany-adds-record-175...

Smart electric meters for individual PV producers that signal and account for negative prices would help. e.g. if your balcony solar power pushes electricity during oversupply you pay penalty.

[−] eigenspace 38d ago
Yeah. Going forward, I suspect the way to handle this will be requiring the small producers to join a "virtual power plant".

It'll result in a lot of misinformed shrieking from people, but probably the way forward is to remove the guaranteed price subsidy for individual household producers, and make it so thar they have to join a VPP if they want to sell to the grid.

[−] scary-size 38d ago
IIIRC, new individual systems are already required to have the capability to wind down export based on external signals.
[−] leonidasrup 38d ago
Is this required even for PV systems under 7 kWp ? I could only find new regulations from March 2025 for PV systems over 7 kWp.

https://www.mvv.de/photovoltaik/ratgeber/solarspitzengesetz-...

[−] scary-size 38d ago
I guess „it‘s complicated“. For our system, 6kWp with iMSys, the grid operator can cap the ingestion as they see fit. For systems over 7kWp, you are required to install a iMSys that allows them to cap. Systems without a iMSys must have the capability to cap to 60% (either at all times or „intelligently“ depending on your consumption). BUT if you install anything today, you most likely will install a iMSys anyway. Also export fees for 7kWp and below are a bit of a joke anyway.
[−] ash217 38d ago
As if negative prices trickle down to the consumer. The electricity market is byzantine, rigged and has resulted in higher energy prices in the last 20 years.
[−] mcintyre1994 38d ago
In the UK you can get energy plans with a price that updates every half hour, published a day ahead. From 12:30pm - 4pm today that price is negative. It was also negative for around 16 hours of Easter Sunday. https://www.octopriceuk.app/agile
[−] paule89 38d ago
Well dynamic pricing only ever works until you have a power outage in the winter and suddenly you pay a years worth of money for the 1 hour you could use your fridge, during a snowstorm.
[−] wrxd 38d ago
It’s still capped at £1/kWh, which is a lot but also a price I’ve seen maybe for a few slots on a couple days in the last three years.

The price was known ~1 day in advance so I had the choice to fill up the battery with cheaper (but still high) prices overnight and reduce the impact

[−] manarth 38d ago
Consumer pricing in the UK is regulated with a price cap (per kWh), so consumers can't be fleeced in an unexpected event.

Business energy users aren't protected, so they buy long-term contracts, hedge, or go-under in the event of an unforeseen energy-shortage.

[−] HPsquared 38d ago
That's what batteries are for.
[−] Ekaros 38d ago
That is the trade off for renewables. Power is very expensive when needed and very cheap when not.
[−] leonidasrup 38d ago
Electric power is very expensive when demand is greater than supply, very cheap when supply is greater than demand.
[−] HPsquared 36d ago
One property of electric power grids is that supply exactly equals demand.
[−] api 38d ago
Where’s profitable crypto mining when you need it?

Back yard plasma furnace? Artificial diamond making? Aluminum smelting?

[−] HPsquared 38d ago
Even just a large water tank which you can choose when to add heat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasonal_thermal_energy_storag...

[−] leonidasrup 38d ago
There are may different energy storage systems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_storage

There have wildly different prices for unit of stored energy and wildly different storage times.

https://css.umich.edu/publications/factsheets/energy/us-grid...

It's not cost effective run aluminum smelting only during peak electricity production.

[−] rcxdude 38d ago
You need something that's valuable, energy intensive, easy to stop and start, and cheap to build capacity for. Either or both of those last two tend to be the problem for most industrial processes (and also crypto mining).
[−] bombcar 38d ago
You don't have a backyard aluminium smelter?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_smelting#Energy_use

[−] testing22321 38d ago
A very large percentage of Australians are about to start getting free power for three hours a day [1].

So yes, it sure does!

[1] https://www.newscientist.com/article/2503532-australia-is-ge...

[−] amai 38d ago
For absolutely no good reason bidirectional charging in Germany is still forbidden. Electric cars could be used to store and buffer the overproduction of electric energy. But no, the german burocrats forbid this solution. Ridiculous!
[−] maxhille 38d ago
AFAIK regulatory changes were needed and implemented recently. Commercial offers for Vehicle to Grid started this month.
[−] ndsipa_pomu 38d ago
I thought that bidirectional charging increases the complexity of the equipment used for the electric grid and can introduce a fire risk in homes if the equipment or wiring is sub-standard or faulty. Basically, it's costly to implement.
[−] notTooFarGone 38d ago
If it were just easy to buy a bunch of batteries and profit from this by selling the same energy during evening/night.

But that is only reserved for the big players I guess.

[−] eigenspace 38d ago
No, it is not at all reserved for big players. You just need to get a dynamic price electricity contract, and a smart-meter in your home and you can do this right now.
[−] dgacmu 38d ago
I don't sell mine, but I time-shift with a small pile of batteries (about 10kWh) and it's pretty reasonable. I save about usd $30/month. It's basically a big ups that will pay for itself in ten years, and I get backup power.
[−] lostlogin 38d ago
I know someone who does this in Mew Zealand with power walls.

He is retired and mostly just a hobby.

[−] ZeroGravitas 38d ago
As with many of these renewable cause negative price stories, the data shows something they never talk about:

https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/zone/DE/72h/hourly

That shows that they still had roughly 5% gas and 5% coal running at the lowest price point.

[−] cubefox 38d ago

> Excess electricity produced during periods of low consumption cannot yet be stored at scale, as battery capacity remains limited.

[−] Vektorceraptor 38d ago
Germany should use it to search for Marsenne primes
[−] MasterScrat 38d ago
Clearly they need more datacenters!
[−] l5870uoo9y 38d ago
[dead]
[−] asah 38d ago
where's the bitcoin miners when you need them ??? /s
[−] flanked-evergl 38d ago
German excellence, shitting the bed both ways.

From JP Morgan's 16th Annual Energy Paper, March 2026

https://cdn.jpmorganfunds.com/content/dam/jpm-am-aem/global/...

> In 2024 we estimated that had Germany not decommissioned nuclear power after the Fukushima accident, it would have needed 50% less electricity generation from fossil fuels, 84% less generation from imported natural gas, 27% less fossil fuel capacity and 42% less natural gas capacity. Another road less traveled: Germany’s electricity prices in 2024 were almost 25% higher than they would have been had the country kept its nuclear power online . And as shown below, Germany might not have experienced such a sharp increase in its electricity imports which are 2x higher than a decade ago as a share of consumption.

> More nuclear shutdown repercussions: Germany’s industrial power prices were 3x higher than the US and China in 2024, and part of the reason why Germany has been experiencing the deindustrialization shown on the right.

On the positive side we in Norway have 10x higher energy prices because we now have to export energy to Germany during the winter and then our water storage is empty in the summer so we get fucked both ways as well.

[−] Hamuko 38d ago
Does someone want to elaborate why it's interesting/important that wholesale electricity prices were low one day during a long weekend?
[−] somedude895 38d ago
For anyone thinking negative prices is a good thing: It's not. It's a panic signal because there are no takers for an oversupply of energy, making the grid unstable.