Everybody just assumes they're the only thing hitting your inbox, like I don't also have "engagement" messages from 3 other stores I bought shit from two years back, plus PG&E trying to convince me to install a meter that can turn off my A/C remotely, plus Nextdoor trying to update me because somebody thinks they heard a gunshot...
This actually misses some, namely the "your order is out for delivery" email which precedes the "your order is delivered one". And some places might split up the delivery into parts so you get even more despite being delivered together (in some cases in the same box!).
Worse is if they require a phone number then text you each and every step as well as email you. Some places you can "opt out" of texting but then the next order will just repeat the process.
All I want is an order confirmed email, and an order shipped email with the tracking number. I get maybe some people want a "delivered" email but I don't even want that, I'll see it, it can sit there an hour it's ok; if it's something really important I'll be looking at the tracking anyhow.
And while I'm complaining, it sure would be great to get rid of the syrupy language some use: "Get excited!!! Your order is being packed!!!!" Yes, I am glad I will receive a bunch of paper towels, but it is, I can assure you, not exciting.
P.S. edit: I just got two emails a few minutes ago (both for the same single order) stating that my order was on the way and would arrive... in twenty minutes. Which I think is a new one, I don't think I've gotten an "your order is less than half hour away" email before.
In contrast I’m a fan of the overeager messages for actual updates like these presented.
It is just when after said delivery that I then end up on a mailing list where I get sent something seemingly daily from a single vendor that I’m less pleased.
I actually really enjoy getting this sequence of emails but I use Gmail’s auto categorization so it just goes in the “Updates” folder and gets auto-forwarded to my claw-like so it’s not super interrupty. I prefer to have the full trace on my side rather than on the provider side because their site might go down and so on.
I can see why people get annoyed. It’s just the alternative that I really dislike.
This way I can do all analysis on my own side or search for status on my side. I prefer to own the data and have it pushed in a timely manner.
All I need when I buy something online is the shipping tracking number. That's it. I don't need an invoice. What am I going to do with that, print it out and stare at it? I don't need constant tracking updates. I can get these myself with the tracking number. I don't need to know it was delivered (again, tracking number, and I can also just look on the porch with my eyeballs). I don't need any of the other sales-spam that always seems to accompany these orders. An online merchant shouldn't even need my E-mail address. I should be able to click "buy" and the next page shows me the tracking number. That's the only relationship I want with you!
I'm particularly fond of the senders who know there are nominally laws about spam, so they just label every piece of marketing and customer retention garbage as pertaining to your user account, or they layer some subscription-related language over a promotion al email. I uploaded photos to a printing service over a decade ago and long since unsubscribed from their marketing lists. Two months ago they started sending me bi-weekly "reminders" that my old photos would be purged soon but offering me a discount subscription to their cloud storage. They then sent me at least three weekly reminders. The thing is, none of the links in the email would send me to the page to download old information (which it turns out I had already done years ago, presumably on prompt of some other spam) or information on deleting that content myself.
The other classic of the genre is mailing list software that stores opt-out preferences separate of customer account data such that when they move to a different marketing service or their retention policy tolls out you start getting spam again, exactly 5 years after you opted out.
Friend of mine told me they bought some music-related item and they got several emails but also an AI generated video of the CEO or something like that personally thanking them for their purchase. Super weird.
The video said something along the lines of "Hey {name} I am the CEO... I want to personally thank you for your purchase".
I can't remember if they bought whatever it is from Instagram through an ad on there so a super social/ad heavy space anyway.
Poland is always like this, for "good" reasons. The American shopping experience is a breath of fresh air in comparison.
Our workflow is often something like this:
1. "Verify your account" (before you buy).
2. Order has been accepted.
3. [From the payment gateway, we typically don't do credit cards for online transactions]: Payment required.
4. [Your bank, via a push notification]: Please confirm this transaction, typical EU overregulation 3D Secure crap.
5. [Your bank, Push]: Card payment.
6. [Payment gateway, after you're redirected to their site and complete payment] Payment succeeded.
7. [Store]: We have received your payment.
8. [Store, one business day later]: Here's the invoice you requested. Spoiler, no invoice was actually requested.
9. [Store]: Here's the tracking number for your parcel.
10. [Parcel Delivery app, you practically need one to open parcel lockers, our favorite method for getting almost anything, if you don't want to deal with the hassle of SMS]: Your parcel has been registered.
10. [Parcel app]: Your parcel is on the way.
11. [Parcel app] Your parcel is ready for collection.
12. [Store]: Your package has been delivered.
Most of these are no-opt-out.
That list doesn't include any marketing, "how did you like your Order" or "Please review this Seller" emails. If there's another intermediary in the mix, like Allegro (our local Amazon / eBay alternative that most people order from), there can sometimes be a bunch more.
Never give out your email. Just hand out proxy addresses. Have a couple in your wallet\phone casing for when you need to give one right away without time to generate it.
No spam. Or if you get some, one click to stop receiving mail from a specific proxy.
Takes some using to, and some work each time you give out an email address. But so does sifting through a ton of spam, because you didn't care enough to only give out a proxy address.
I've internalized the delete shortcut in gmail and configured one of the swipe directions in the app to be delete. For a long time, I archived every email, but there's so much crap like this now to wade through.
I also discovered that a busy local mailing list was sending images as attachments that counted against my quota, so even more incentive to delete instead of archive.
Doordash has become better, but they use to do the same thing with notifications:
Your order has been placed! > Your order is being prepared! > Bob is on route to pick up your order! Bob is waiting for your order! Message from Bob: I'm waiting for your order! > Your order has been picked up! > Message from Bob: I'm on my way! > Your order is approaching! > Your order has arrived! > Your order was dropped off! > Please rate your dasher! > etc etc etc
The only reason I never completely turned off notifications was because there was one I actually needed: my order was dropped off...
What bothers me is when I give an email at a store for receipt or refund purposes, and they take that as an opt-in to multiple marketing emails per week. And removing myself from the list often takes multiple attempts at "unsubscribe".
If I don't explicitly opt-in to marketing, I should never get marketing. Ahem, Microcenter.
Having proxy addresses is nice. But I can't just kill an alias if I'm using the email for refunds, or if I use the service multiple times. Also don't want to generate and read off alias emails when I'm at a cash register.
Assuming the message actually contains information, and not a login link, lots of email updates is great. It means I automatically get a local copy of the message stored, so if I want to look it up, I have it immediately available, regardless of my current network connectivity.
I use Gmail's support for aliases, by putting a '+' symbol after my user name, followed by a alias, so that the messages can be easily filtered. I then add the alias to Gmail's server-side filtering to move the message to an IMAP folder for messages from vendors/distributors.
I've given up trying to wrangle my inbox and instead just let Google do it's thing with the different category tabs. I never open "Promotions" or "Social" and only rarely need to open "Updates" (mostly to drag something into the Primary tab).
Am I missing things? Yes, it has happened, but I feel like I'm missing less than when my inbox was a superfund site. Email has so much more noise than signal for me at this point.
Apple hide my email was a great solution to this, I feel like we need a proper open source alternative. Basically a relay inbox that is ephemeral and you can discard once you’re done.
I just ordered a dishwasher from Lowes, and that translated to 16 text messages from them, including asking if my address was correct, asking 3 times if the delivery date worked for me. I appreciated 2 of them: Your delivery window is 9:30-1:30, you are stop 7, the driver just finished the delivery before you and is headed your way.
There's a right number of times to text me about a delivery that is going exactly as planned, and 16 is not that number.
I'll just suggest -- I don't think they have A/B tested the right amount of emails. There was a time when companies optimized this sort of stuff, but the cost of researching that vs. just sending every opportunistic email possible is too great. This doesn't really matter except that we give companies too much credit for stuff like this. They're just kind of...doing stuff, for better or worse.
I gave up on inbox zero a long time ago, so it isn't the emails themselves that bother me as much as the notifications that I get through my phone and smartwatch.
I now run each notification through an LLM and give it instructions on what to filter out. I accidentally disabled it recently and was startled at the flood of notifications--like when you browse the internet without an ad blocker and forget how bad it is.
i am no fan of spam. but i am totally fine (and expect, really) to receive email #s 1, 3, 4, 6, 7, and 8 on this 10 point list.
- 1 confirms my order was received, and im not left thinking i ordered something when it wasnt processed.
- 3, 4, 6, 7 are all good for ensuring my order didnt get lost in the process and lets me schedule my day if needed.
- proof of delivery (8) is good for records, disputes, or just knowing that i should pop over to my house on lunch so the item isnt sitting outside all day.
however, i do use my own domain and unique addresses per store (e.g. "walmart@example.com" if i need a walmart account for whatever reason), so that if/when companies start doing the "we miss you", "please rate us", "seriously, please rate us, you havent yet :(" or whatever, i can immediately bin it.
catchall is also super convenient for automatically organizing emails. anything with a "to" address of "walmart@example.com" goes straight into the "walmart" folder.
98 comments
Everybody just assumes they're the only thing hitting your inbox, like I don't also have "engagement" messages from 3 other stores I bought shit from two years back, plus PG&E trying to convince me to install a meter that can turn off my A/C remotely, plus Nextdoor trying to update me because somebody thinks they heard a gunshot...
Worse is if they require a phone number then text you each and every step as well as email you. Some places you can "opt out" of texting but then the next order will just repeat the process.
All I want is an order confirmed email, and an order shipped email with the tracking number. I get maybe some people want a "delivered" email but I don't even want that, I'll see it, it can sit there an hour it's ok; if it's something really important I'll be looking at the tracking anyhow.
And while I'm complaining, it sure would be great to get rid of the syrupy language some use: "Get excited!!! Your order is being packed!!!!" Yes, I am glad I will receive a bunch of paper towels, but it is, I can assure you, not exciting.
P.S. edit: I just got two emails a few minutes ago (both for the same single order) stating that my order was on the way and would arrive... in twenty minutes. Which I think is a new one, I don't think I've gotten an "your order is less than half hour away" email before.
It is just when after said delivery that I then end up on a mailing list where I get sent something seemingly daily from a single vendor that I’m less pleased.
I can see why people get annoyed. It’s just the alternative that I really dislike.
This way I can do all analysis on my own side or search for status on my side. I prefer to own the data and have it pushed in a timely manner.
The other classic of the genre is mailing list software that stores opt-out preferences separate of customer account data such that when they move to a different marketing service or their retention policy tolls out you start getting spam again, exactly 5 years after you opted out.
Since virtually everything now requires creating an account (thanks marketers, bots, AI agents), I always use throwaway emails + privacy tools.
The video said something along the lines of "Hey {name} I am the CEO... I want to personally thank you for your purchase".
I can't remember if they bought whatever it is from Instagram through an ad on there so a super social/ad heavy space anyway.
Our workflow is often something like this:
1. "Verify your account" (before you buy).
2. Order has been accepted.
3. [From the payment gateway, we typically don't do credit cards for online transactions]: Payment required.
4. [Your bank, via a push notification]: Please confirm this transaction, typical EU overregulation 3D Secure crap.
5. [Your bank, Push]: Card payment.
6. [Payment gateway, after you're redirected to their site and complete payment] Payment succeeded.
7. [Store]: We have received your payment.
8. [Store, one business day later]: Here's the invoice you requested. Spoiler, no invoice was actually requested.
9. [Store]: Here's the tracking number for your parcel.
10. [Parcel Delivery app, you practically need one to open parcel lockers, our favorite method for getting almost anything, if you don't want to deal with the hassle of SMS]: Your parcel has been registered.
10. [Parcel app]: Your parcel is on the way.
11. [Parcel app] Your parcel is ready for collection.
12. [Store]: Your package has been delivered.
Most of these are no-opt-out.
That list doesn't include any marketing, "how did you like your Order" or "Please review this Seller" emails. If there's another intermediary in the mix, like Allegro (our local Amazon / eBay alternative that most people order from), there can sometimes be a bunch more.
No spam. Or if you get some, one click to stop receiving mail from a specific proxy.
Takes some using to, and some work each time you give out an email address. But so does sifting through a ton of spam, because you didn't care enough to only give out a proxy address.
I also discovered that a busy local mailing list was sending images as attachments that counted against my quota, so even more incentive to delete instead of archive.
So it is just "mark as read" every day or week, and move on skimming mail senders, and rarely any headings, and nearly never message bodies.
Or for such a company, make a filter and clear out the subfolder every half year or when check only there is an issue with an order.
Is it an important update on accounts? Gotta give them that e-mail open signal to know!
No, it was just an ad saying if I buy a BMW this week d they’ll give me a discount on the loan. Gee, thanks.
Your order has been placed! > Your order is being prepared! > Bob is on route to pick up your order! Bob is waiting for your order! Message from Bob: I'm waiting for your order! > Your order has been picked up! > Message from Bob: I'm on my way! > Your order is approaching! > Your order has arrived! > Your order was dropped off! > Please rate your dasher! > etc etc etc
The only reason I never completely turned off notifications was because there was one I actually needed: my order was dropped off...
What bothers me is when I give an email at a store for receipt or refund purposes, and they take that as an opt-in to multiple marketing emails per week. And removing myself from the list often takes multiple attempts at "unsubscribe".
If I don't explicitly opt-in to marketing, I should never get marketing. Ahem, Microcenter.
Having proxy addresses is nice. But I can't just kill an alias if I'm using the email for refunds, or if I use the service multiple times. Also don't want to generate and read off alias emails when I'm at a cash register.
I use Gmail's support for aliases, by putting a '+' symbol after my user name, followed by a alias, so that the messages can be easily filtered. I then add the alias to Gmail's server-side filtering to move the message to an IMAP folder for messages from vendors/distributors.
Am I missing things? Yes, it has happened, but I feel like I'm missing less than when my inbox was a superfund site. Email has so much more noise than signal for me at this point.
There's a right number of times to text me about a delivery that is going exactly as planned, and 16 is not that number.
I now run each notification through an LLM and give it instructions on what to filter out. I accidentally disabled it recently and was startled at the flood of notifications--like when you browse the internet without an ad blocker and forget how bad it is.
- 1 confirms my order was received, and im not left thinking i ordered something when it wasnt processed.
- 3, 4, 6, 7 are all good for ensuring my order didnt get lost in the process and lets me schedule my day if needed.
- proof of delivery (8) is good for records, disputes, or just knowing that i should pop over to my house on lunch so the item isnt sitting outside all day.
however, i do use my own domain and unique addresses per store (e.g. "walmart@example.com" if i need a walmart account for whatever reason), so that if/when companies start doing the "we miss you", "please rate us", "seriously, please rate us, you havent yet :(" or whatever, i can immediately bin it.
catchall is also super convenient for automatically organizing emails. anything with a "to" address of "walmart@example.com" goes straight into the "walmart" folder.