To turn to other, much older publications... The US Constitution was written ~230 year ago, when the state of the art was carrying letters by horse, and it explicitly authorized making a public service to provide it scale, which became the US Postal Service.
If the same ideals and priorities had been applied against today's technology, we'd have the US Networking Service. Certainly not a deluxe ISP (even today USPS exists alongside other package companies and couriers) but an affordable baseline available to all residents.
there are many democrats who would block such a thing as well.
historically there is always the one or two who (perhaps too conveniently?) block or water down legislation: joe lieberman against public option [0], two democrats block student debt relief [1], the dynamic duo of manchin and sinema blocking voting rights legislation and build back better [2] [3]...
you don't need to blame republicans for democrats sabotaging themselves over and over.
Lieberman and Sinema are great examples of quixotic people who weren't even representing their constituents' wishes. They're legitimate targets of criticism and intra-party competition through being primaried or losing access to fund raising.
Manchin also didn't represent his constituents' wishes, but in the other direction on the political axis. The Democratic caucus won many votes it otherwise would not have, if a Republican was occupying the seat. If the Democratic party is serious about gaining and holding power, it needs to accept that some seats are tenuously held. Legislators in those seats need to be able to break with the party line to satisfy their constituents.
Ironically, Manchin attempted to include permitting reform, which would allow renewables and utility projects the same latitude that oil & gas projects enjoy. However, Democratic party stalwarts blocked the proposal.
The US Democratic party is a mix of conservatives, liberals and socialists, so of course it's bound to happen in scenarios where one or two votes can decide whether something gets passed.
You are publicly proposing “throwing all Republicans through a window to their death”.
This isn’t normal, and it isn’t right. If we allow anyone to call for political violence, then we become numb to it. Worse still, your call to violence against Republicans gives them a call to defence, and then a call to preemptive action.
“It was ok for us to shutdown HackerNews because they called for our deaths.”
We shouldn’t tolerate calls to political violence from anyone. Be better.
Crazy, I've never heard of such a plan anywhere.
But given how essential the internet is to everything we do on a daily basis, that makes a lot of sense. However, I would like to see the existing situation that lead to this decision. Were there many people who couldn't do things anymore due to lacking internet access? Was there public pressure to do this or did they just think it a good idea?
My assumption so far was that there are those who use the internet, they're usually fine, and those that don't - they won't benefit much. But no idea about South Korea.
Anyway, cheaper and unlimited access is always a good idea!
At the height of the pandemic, the UK mandated zero-rating data for mobile connection to .gov.uk and .NHS.uk domains, along with several other charitable sites.
(I was part of the team working on that proposal.)
Do you have heared of IP addresses and that large institutions especially government institutions have their own blocks from the address space? Mapping these is kind of easy.
meanwhile Czechia literally BANNED free Wi-Fi in restaurants and other establishments during COVID, so people will spend there less time, I understood the rationale if people already didn't have mobile data in phones anyway
other things Czech gov banned during COVID-19 was singing in public places, no kidding!
And I'm not even going to complain they banned sale of the toys, colored pencils and other items so people will spend less time in the shop, so me and kids could just look at the colored pencils behind the tape because we had to go to shop anyway.
Crazy even to me, a Korean. I just woke up and saw this news on HN. Over the years I watched the price of data was going down drastically in Korea. I had always complained that data in France was much cheaper like 30gb for 10 eur. Then when I came back after around the end of pandemic, the price of data in Korea was actually quite cheap.
Do I know why? No idea. The article alluded fast AI adoption but even senior Korean citizens are all addicted to youtube videos. Soon they will start using AI. Young people are already heavily using AI for everything. So I don’t think it’s for AI adoption.
The recent hacking incidence was a big one, true. But the price had been going down even before.
Even in the US which is well behind SK in the digital curve, I’ve heard anecdotally that a huge problem with reintegrating some populations like the homeless, poor or elderly is that job applications are virtually all online now.
There are many such schemes for low income households in the united states to subsidize internet access for students. There were some federal and other programs.
Probably LTE is cheaper to deploy then actually wiring a house up anyway.
Canada requires mobile service providers to have a 35$ a month data plan, and the low-income support payments will add 35$ a month to the base rate if you provide a cell phone bill.
> Were there many people who couldn't do things anymore due to lacking internet access?
Almost anythijg now requires internet access. Banking, schools, parking, transport tickets, almost any form of communication with almost any organization (besides phone, but some companies don't even have phone numbers anymore) etc.
Maybe not general data cap exemption but for as long as I remember a lot of carriers in Europe whitelist certain apps that people think of as "essential" that work even when you've reached your data limit - such as WhatsApp and Messenger. Perhaps there are certain applications specific to South Korea that people think as essential/universal and expect them to work without a data plan (even maybe related to the digital ID thing they have there).
But to really reach the poor people, you would also need to deploy phones, not only data/traffic/WiFi:
For sure for lot of people 10-20 USD monthly bill is already too high, but buying a phone that is somehow not outdated and capable of running all the apps needed, this is a much higher barrier (of lets say 200-300 USD for a somehow solid phone that will last some time9
In 2011 Poland 2600MHz LTE band was auctioned off with the condition winning bidderwould offer free 512Kbit mobile internet called 'Bezpłatny Dostęp do Internetu' aka BDI (translates free access to internet) for 3 years, amount of time it should take them to build full country coverage.
... except they failed to build the network deciding to concentrate on most profitable cities instead. National regulating body UKE (Office of Electronic Communications) didnt like that one bit and first expanded free period to 2016, and then in 2016 made extension indefinite until mandated 50% coverage is reached + 3 years. This happened in 2021 forcing them to provide it all the way to 2024.
TLDR 2011-2024 free government mandated mobile 512Kbit internet.
Funnily enough Aero2 - company in question decided it was a good business after all and is still offering "free unlimited" trier, in quotes because you have to renew it every 12 months paying ~$1.5 https://aero2.pl/zasady-dzialania/
> the scheme will provide over seven million subscribers with unlimited downloads at just 400 kbps after their data allowances expire.
Does this mean it’s not a universal entitlement as such, because you presumably first have to pay for a plan with an allowance? (Not to mention having to pay for a device).
This is actually a really great idea. There should also
be universal terminals that people can access on public
places or so, even without having a smartphone ready.
Now here in Germany we'll wait for decades for this to
happen. For some reason Merz gave up on Germany.
I'd perfectly live with a forever free connection with about 16/32 KBPS. It can do lots of stuff in text mode. Not for video or big files, but enough to fill some pages.
That would mean accesible web pages, and forget about JS based captchas and the like.
This would be huge for IoT. It'll obviously be abused to send "metrics" (a.k.a. private data to be sold) by companies, but still. I hope there's no limit on SIM cards.
Part of me is all for this but I also get the knee jerk reaction of ‘if something is free, you’re the product’
What’s in this for the for profit companies? wouldn’t this cannibalize sales to the demographics that would be buying a cheap prepaid plan if it doesn’t already exist?
Maybe i live less chronically online (but still on my phone) than most, but having spent a few weeks in Japan. I’ll assume prices are similar due to localities, similar-enough cultures and densities. My partner and I shared a 3gb SIM and wifi tethering because of the pricing and lack of need for on demand data (we download movies to our devices when on a high speed networks). I would be fine on 400kpbs while away from hotels and public wifi, and I imagine many tourists will be in the same boat, killing a lucrative segment of the market.
> unlimited downloads at just 400 kbps after their data allowances expire
This is not new. Many Korean mobile plans actually offer even higher unlimited throttled speeds (up to 10 Mbps!)
- You can filter plans by the unlimited throttled speed on this site. The plans are usually titled by {data amount} + {throttled speed}: https://www.moyoplan.com/plans
- Even if not throttled, I think data overage charges were capped at about $13 (20K KRW)
So perhaps unlimited 400 kbps will become standard: i.e. no plans will ever charge data overage fees?
---
The linked statement didn't seem to specifically mention the 400 kbps thing at all.
brazil was .25/24h of internet at top (4g) speeds then. which is like $7/mo max. until the gov elected with a steven banon campaign dropped the mandatory plan.
the plan was a punishment for companies not maintaining payphones after getting the spectrum monopoly, which was a requirement on the auction.
this does not come across that impressive beyond the surface. however, given the market inefficiencies (see Twitch saga over double charging of bandwidth [1]) despite having some of the fastest and (relatively) affordable internet has always made it an interesting case study.
throttled speed beyond cap is something i've grown up seeing since the ADSL days, but mandating it across the handful of providers can perhaps help with the odd Line text or two.
126 comments
> "Poor?" said Cordelia, bewildered. "No electricity? How can it be on the comm network?"
> "It's not, of course," answered Vorkosigan.
> "Then how can anybody get their schooling?"
> "They don't."
> Cordelia stared. "I don't understand. How do they get their jobs?"
> "A few escape to the Service. The rest prey on each other, mostly." Vorkosigan regarded her face uneasily. "Have you no poverty on Beta Colony?"
> "Poverty? Well, some people have more money than others, of course, but... no comconsoles?"
> Vorkosigan was diverted from his interrogation. "Is not owning a comconsole the lowest standard of living you can imagine?" he said in wonder.
> "It's the first article in the constitution. 'Access to information shall not be abridged.' "
-- Shards of Honor (1986) by Lois McMaster Bujold
If the same ideals and priorities had been applied against today's technology, we'd have the US Networking Service. Certainly not a deluxe ISP (even today USPS exists alongside other package companies and couriers) but an affordable baseline available to all residents.
historically there is always the one or two who (perhaps too conveniently?) block or water down legislation: joe lieberman against public option [0], two democrats block student debt relief [1], the dynamic duo of manchin and sinema blocking voting rights legislation and build back better [2] [3]...
you don't need to blame republicans for democrats sabotaging themselves over and over.
[0] https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2009/12/joe-liebermans-...
[1] https://www.businessinsider.com/which-democrats-voted-to-blo...
[2] https://apnews.com/article/biden-voting-rights-bill-collapse...
[3] https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/manchin-says-he-no...
Manchin also didn't represent his constituents' wishes, but in the other direction on the political axis. The Democratic caucus won many votes it otherwise would not have, if a Republican was occupying the seat. If the Democratic party is serious about gaining and holding power, it needs to accept that some seats are tenuously held. Legislators in those seats need to be able to break with the party line to satisfy their constituents.
Ironically, Manchin attempted to include permitting reform, which would allow renewables and utility projects the same latitude that oil & gas projects enjoy. However, Democratic party stalwarts blocked the proposal.
You are publicly proposing “throwing all Republicans through a window to their death”.
This isn’t normal, and it isn’t right. If we allow anyone to call for political violence, then we become numb to it. Worse still, your call to violence against Republicans gives them a call to defence, and then a call to preemptive action.
“It was ok for us to shutdown HackerNews because they called for our deaths.”
We shouldn’t tolerate calls to political violence from anyone. Be better.
(It didn't, it was just an empty threat, but calls to political violence are the currency of the day)
My assumption so far was that there are those who use the internet, they're usually fine, and those that don't - they won't benefit much. But no idea about South Korea. Anyway, cheaper and unlimited access is always a good idea!
(I was part of the team working on that proposal.)
Not that there's no BYOIP and not that it's impossible to do with shared IP's
other things Czech gov banned during COVID-19 was singing in public places, no kidding!
And I'm not even going to complain they banned sale of the toys, colored pencils and other items so people will spend less time in the shop, so me and kids could just look at the colored pencils behind the tape because we had to go to shop anyway.
Do I know why? No idea. The article alluded fast AI adoption but even senior Korean citizens are all addicted to youtube videos. Soon they will start using AI. Young people are already heavily using AI for everything. So I don’t think it’s for AI adoption.
The recent hacking incidence was a big one, true. But the price had been going down even before.
Probably LTE is cheaper to deploy then actually wiring a house up anyway.
> But given how essential the internet is to everything we do on a daily basis, that makes a lot of sense.
Well, water is certainly more essential, yet it isn't free.
Food isn't free. Shelter isn't free.
Besides, the services you'd use over this free connection aren't (necessarily) free.
Its not unreasonable to suspect some other agenda, like easier propaganda, subsidising of social media, ...
> Were there many people who couldn't do things anymore due to lacking internet access?
Almost anythijg now requires internet access. Banking, schools, parking, transport tickets, almost any form of communication with almost any organization (besides phone, but some companies don't even have phone numbers anymore) etc.
https://www.swisscom.ch/en/residential/landline-subscription...
>I've never heard of such a plan anywhere.
In 2011 Poland 2600MHz LTE band was auctioned off with the condition winning bidderwould offer free 512Kbit mobile internet called 'Bezpłatny Dostęp do Internetu' aka BDI (translates free access to internet) for 3 years, amount of time it should take them to build full country coverage.
... except they failed to build the network deciding to concentrate on most profitable cities instead. National regulating body UKE (Office of Electronic Communications) didnt like that one bit and first expanded free period to 2016, and then in 2016 made extension indefinite until mandated 50% coverage is reached + 3 years. This happened in 2021 forcing them to provide it all the way to 2024.
TLDR 2011-2024 free government mandated mobile 512Kbit internet.
Funnily enough Aero2 - company in question decided it was a good business after all and is still offering "free unlimited" trier, in quotes because you have to renew it every 12 months paying ~$1.5 https://aero2.pl/zasady-dzialania/
> the scheme will provide over seven million subscribers with unlimited downloads at just 400 kbps after their data allowances expire.
Does this mean it’s not a universal entitlement as such, because you presumably first have to pay for a plan with an allowance? (Not to mention having to pay for a device).
Now here in Germany we'll wait for decades for this to happen. For some reason Merz gave up on Germany.
That would mean accesible web pages, and forget about JS based captchas and the like.
What’s in this for the for profit companies? wouldn’t this cannibalize sales to the demographics that would be buying a cheap prepaid plan if it doesn’t already exist?
Maybe i live less chronically online (but still on my phone) than most, but having spent a few weeks in Japan. I’ll assume prices are similar due to localities, similar-enough cultures and densities. My partner and I shared a 3gb SIM and wifi tethering because of the pricing and lack of need for on demand data (we download movies to our devices when on a high speed networks). I would be fine on 400kpbs while away from hotels and public wifi, and I imagine many tourists will be in the same boat, killing a lucrative segment of the market.
> unlimited downloads at just 400 kbps after their data allowances expire
This is not new. Many Korean mobile plans actually offer even higher unlimited throttled speeds (up to 10 Mbps!)
- You can filter plans by the unlimited throttled speed on this site. The plans are usually titled by
{data amount} + {throttled speed}: https://www.moyoplan.com/plans- Even if not throttled, I think data overage charges were capped at about $13 (20K KRW)
So perhaps unlimited 400 kbps will become standard: i.e. no plans will ever charge data overage fees?
---
The linked statement didn't seem to specifically mention the 400 kbps thing at all.
brazil was .25/24h of internet at top (4g) speeds then. which is like $7/mo max. until the gov elected with a steven banon campaign dropped the mandatory plan.
the plan was a punishment for companies not maintaining payphones after getting the spectrum monopoly, which was a requirement on the auction.
throttled speed beyond cap is something i've grown up seeing since the ADSL days, but mandating it across the handful of providers can perhaps help with the odd Line text or two.
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38539167