Why is there a flock camera indoors at a school in the first place? Are the schools supposed to be putting video and audio footage of children on 3rd party storage platforms? Are the parents aware of this? Perhaps PTA meetings should discuss. That seems like something that should be using close circuit PoE cameras to local NVR's with on-prem encrypted storage with a retention policy if there must be cameras. Encrypted CEPH perhaps? [3]
Just as one example Zoneminder [1][2] can be clustered and distributed assuming a large campus. I'm sure there must be other open source NVR's that can do the same. School IT staff should try out a small deployment first and then extend it year over year. Local AI should detect and alert on fights, abuse from teachers, anyone with a weapon, someone injured, etc...
Bob can be granted access to specific cameras that relate to his role to avoid Repetitive Strain Injury RSI among other issues.
The main reason that organizations choose commercially managed solutions is because they don't have local expertise or staff to do things themselves. I do agree that on-prem solutions are better, but Zoneminder is probably not a great option. Besides being old and clunky, it also isn't anywhere near a complete solution, and the IP cameras people often choose to connect to them are often security nightmares. There are many good and complete commercial offerings that are secure and keep video locally.
I totally get what you are saying and there are certainly some schools that lack IT staff, budget and experience but there are some schools that have big budgets and plenty of IT people sitting on their hands that could slowly build this out, document it in a way that schools could budget around YoY and set examples for other schools. Maybe even use it as a project to get students some college credits.
If there are better options than Zoneminder please do share the tutorial videos with others here so they have greater options. I am old and clunky so ZM works for me. Some may even say old and clunky can mean reliable and low maintenance. There are probably some school IT admins reading this. ZM has great documentation and tutorial videos in my opinion. It is also used by a large number of corporations.
Just my own philosophy but I am leery of expensive turn-key commercial solutions as they lead to proprietary solutions that school IT won't understand and will just lead to dead cameras and empty NVR's when law enforcement need them the most. It will be one of the first maintenance contracts that get cut from budgets.
Just because someone has an IT staff doesn't necessarily mean that staff really has the expertise to set up a bespoke surveillance system properly. Nor does it really make it a good idea to do so. Nor is it even a good use of time when packaged systems can fulfill most requirements with less integration risk.
The software running on an NVR is only one small part of a surveillance system. I'd be much more worried about the choice IP cameras themselves, which are notoriously problematic. And if you look at the cameras which are well regarded and high quality -- typically those vendors have their own NVR solutions which are also well regarded and already tested to work well with their cameras.
> I am leery of expensive turn-key commercial solutions as they lead to proprietary solutions that school IT won't understand
If IT can't adequately evaluate and choose a turn-key solution, I doubt their ability to piece together their own system.
> If there are better options than Zoneminder please do share the tutorial videos with others here so they have greater options. I am old and clunky so ZM works for me. Some may even say old and clunky can mean reliable and low maintenance.
The last time I tried Zoneminder, the problem I had was that the detection algorithms were so bad that I found them useless. The cameras I had were all outdoors and their algorithm struggled to strike a balance between detecting legitimate motion and not falsely triggering when lighting conditions changed. I tried some other projects that had better algorithms for filtering out changes in exposure and lighting (I forget which ones), but there's also some now that have AI object detection. But ultimately I've migrated away because commercial options got better, cheaper, and more feature filled.
If I picked a new system today I'd probably try something like: https://www.ui.com/us/en/camera-security I don't have any personal experience with it but the value looks incredible.
The last time I tried Zoneminder, the problem I had was that the detection algorithms were so bad that I found them useless.
Fair enough. I've had them set off by deer no matter how hard I try to avoid it. I think they know they are getting my attention.
For what it's worth in a school setting there can be monitors in multiple admin offices, the admin waiting area, school police office and other offices to group source monitoring of strange activity. Otherwise if nothing else it is useful to be able to go back an hour, a few hours or days to verify the "he said, she said" accusations often uttered in school.
That and paying to offload legal liability to a vendor.
Lots of great, free, widely adopted open source technology solutions aren't adopted by public sector because their legal staff won't accept the liability of not having a paid contract that makes guarantees. Great use of tax dollars.
> Are the parents aware of this? Perhaps PTA meetings should discuss.
Not everyone grows up in such an idyllic environment where there is an active and engaged PTA or concerned parents who feel like they have a voice. Moreover the perceived need for security cameras is probably inversely proportional to places with active PTA groups (though maybe not). Either way, suggesting tech solutions is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.
Arguing over on-prem vs cloud misses the entire point.The architecture doesn't matter when the core requirement itself is just insane surveillance.We should be angry that our engineering is being weaponized to fulfill such a sick requirement in the first place.
why do sales employees have access (or ability to request access) to camera feeds at all?
i would like to know what other cameras adam snow, bob carter, cameran whiteman view regularly. "search him hard drive" as the kids say.
(p.s. https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/flock-safety, sadly the "latest news" section does not have "flock sales employees caught watching kids", just hundreds of millions in funding to realize the minority report)
As someone who has been somewhat involved with this I'm disappointed and but not terribly surprised this goes even deeper than Dunwoody public spaces. There was a lot of community engagement on the Flock contract renewal but the vote was postponed twice. It seemed like once community engagement died down (because asking people to stay vigilant constantly is exhausting). Council seemed upset but when it came down to it they voted unanimously to continue and expand the Flock contract.
I feel like it really does a lot of harm to public trust. But also most people, even people pretty engaged in the community, just don't know or care about the consequences of being surveilled constantly. It's very hard to convey to them the potential harm this is doing to them or their kids.
The council meeting alluded to in the article happened a few days ago and is on YouTube[1]. Public comment starts around 23m, the commenters bring up some of the things in the article, and the council still moves to approve around 1h20m.
It may take time but make no mistake - this will become a bigger issue than it currently is. The fact that multiple high level Flock employees appear to be spying on children in highly suspect settings (gym, pool) is a massive, massive scandal. This just gave everyone at their city council meetings some of the most potent talking points to use against city adoption of Flock cameras.
This is a nation feeding their children junk prison food, so no surprise they’ll also sell their video feeds to dubiously unaudited people.
It’s hard to understand though.
Not super surprising an employee comfortable with what Flock does, to not bear any moral burden from profiting off of it, would have a few creeps in the mix.
Bob also has some interesting searches. On September 30th, 2025 - Bob looked at just one camera. This camera is in the gymnastics room of the JCC. I personally am curious about why a sales employee from Flock would be viewing the gymnastics room. I think this also deserves an explanation.
50 comments
Just as one example Zoneminder [1][2] can be clustered and distributed assuming a large campus. I'm sure there must be other open source NVR's that can do the same. School IT staff should try out a small deployment first and then extend it year over year. Local AI should detect and alert on fights, abuse from teachers, anyone with a weapon, someone injured, etc...
Bob can be granted access to specific cameras that relate to his role to avoid Repetitive Strain Injury RSI among other issues.
[1] - https://zoneminder.readthedocs.io/en/stable/
[2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us20t1gQPOE [video][48 mins][tutorial using LXC on Debian and Proxmox]
[3] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzLV9Agnou8 [video][24 mins][ceph tutorial on proxmox][cat included]
If there are better options than Zoneminder please do share the tutorial videos with others here so they have greater options. I am old and clunky so ZM works for me. Some may even say old and clunky can mean reliable and low maintenance. There are probably some school IT admins reading this. ZM has great documentation and tutorial videos in my opinion. It is also used by a large number of corporations.
Just my own philosophy but I am leery of expensive turn-key commercial solutions as they lead to proprietary solutions that school IT won't understand and will just lead to dead cameras and empty NVR's when law enforcement need them the most. It will be one of the first maintenance contracts that get cut from budgets.
The software running on an NVR is only one small part of a surveillance system. I'd be much more worried about the choice IP cameras themselves, which are notoriously problematic. And if you look at the cameras which are well regarded and high quality -- typically those vendors have their own NVR solutions which are also well regarded and already tested to work well with their cameras.
> I am leery of expensive turn-key commercial solutions as they lead to proprietary solutions that school IT won't understand
If IT can't adequately evaluate and choose a turn-key solution, I doubt their ability to piece together their own system.
> If there are better options than Zoneminder please do share the tutorial videos with others here so they have greater options. I am old and clunky so ZM works for me. Some may even say old and clunky can mean reliable and low maintenance.
The last time I tried Zoneminder, the problem I had was that the detection algorithms were so bad that I found them useless. The cameras I had were all outdoors and their algorithm struggled to strike a balance between detecting legitimate motion and not falsely triggering when lighting conditions changed. I tried some other projects that had better algorithms for filtering out changes in exposure and lighting (I forget which ones), but there's also some now that have AI object detection. But ultimately I've migrated away because commercial options got better, cheaper, and more feature filled.
If I picked a new system today I'd probably try something like: https://www.ui.com/us/en/camera-security I don't have any personal experience with it but the value looks incredible.
Fair enough. I've had them set off by deer no matter how hard I try to avoid it. I think they know they are getting my attention.
For what it's worth in a school setting there can be monitors in multiple admin offices, the admin waiting area, school police office and other offices to group source monitoring of strange activity. Otherwise if nothing else it is useful to be able to go back an hour, a few hours or days to verify the "he said, she said" accusations often uttered in school.
Lots of great, free, widely adopted open source technology solutions aren't adopted by public sector because their legal staff won't accept the liability of not having a paid contract that makes guarantees. Great use of tax dollars.
> Are the parents aware of this? Perhaps PTA meetings should discuss.
Not everyone grows up in such an idyllic environment where there is an active and engaged PTA or concerned parents who feel like they have a voice. Moreover the perceived need for security cameras is probably inversely proportional to places with active PTA groups (though maybe not). Either way, suggesting tech solutions is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.
This seems to just be a regular progression, and offering some open source alternative to oppression is amusing.
why do sales employees have access (or ability to request access) to camera feeds at all?
i would like to know what other cameras adam snow, bob carter, cameran whiteman view regularly. "search him hard drive" as the kids say.
(p.s. https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/flock-safety, sadly the "latest news" section does not have "flock sales employees caught watching kids", just hundreds of millions in funding to realize the minority report)
I feel like it really does a lot of harm to public trust. But also most people, even people pretty engaged in the community, just don't know or care about the consequences of being surveilled constantly. It's very hard to convey to them the potential harm this is doing to them or their kids.
[1] - https://youtu.be/AqOYDNKBr3g?si=EFOTKlKIRK01mVvL
This is just the beginning.
Bob also has some interesting searches. On September 30th, 2025 - Bob looked at just one camera. This camera is in the gymnastics room of the JCC. I personally am curious about why a sales employee from Flock would be viewing the gymnastics room. I think this also deserves an explanation.