If you actually follow those claims, you'll find a report published by a cohort partially composed of Falun Gong members.
The actual report points to about 60-80 possible instances of doctors not putting in the maximum amount of effort to save a life over a period of 20-30 years.
Not exactly systemic like people parrot. Sorta like how people endlessly repeated "social credit score" despite most Chinese acknowledging it barely existed for a majority of the population.
"Since 2005 China's Deputy Health Minister Huang Jiefu acknowledged on several occasions that approximately 65% of organ transplants in China were sourced from executed prisoners.[33][34][35] In 2006 the World Medical Association demanded that China cease harvesting organs from prisoners, who are not deemed able to properly consent.[36]"
...
"Experts have also expressed concern that in addition to executed prisoners, non-death-row political prisoners and prisoners of conscience are also being used to supply the organ transplant industry.[39][40] Researchers, including ones affiliated with The Epoch Times, the International Coalition to End Transplant Abuse in China, and the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, point out that data from China between 2010 and 2018 may have been falsified or manipulated because of "contradictory, implausible, or anomalous data artefacts" and because they match a quadratic equation with model parsimony that is one to two orders of magnitude smoother than those of other nations."
Jeremy Lewin was the cause of so many deaths from his actions here. I wonder if he smiled as he cut USAID funding. I wonder if he laughed when vaccines weren't delivered and babies died.
> Some of those guys will almost certainly grow out of it.
We send teenagers to prison for less societal damage. They don't get an opportunity to "grow out of it". I don't know why these teenagers should get more benefit of the doubt.
For the benefit of those outside the US: when I was growing up, and we constantly had police officers talk to us in school as part of the ill-fated DARE "just say no" campaign, the next most common phrase we heard was "tried as an adult".
i.e., if you were 14 or older, you couldn't drink, vote, or even get a learner's permit to drive a motor vehicle, and you were probably flooded with all kinds of hormones making it even more more difficult to regulate yourself, but you'd be put in prison with adults rather than go to juvenile hall if you were ever convicted of a crime, and any felonies would stay on your record permanently, essentially ending any hope you'd have at a normal life.
While I have some sympathy for the youngest members of DOGE, they are actually old enough to be legal adults, and I would point out that their youthful naïveté and the "but they're just kids" response to any attempts at holding them accountable is precisely why they were chosen for their roles.
> We send teenagers to prison for less societal damage. They don't get an opportunity to "grow out of it".
Yeah, but in those cases there are literal laws against what they did, and usually the morality is much more stark (e.g. killing a guy).
Also, the "logic" of being harsh to immature person X so we have to be harsh to every immature person just doesn't fly.
> I don't know why these teenagers should get more benefit of the doubt.
Because this was a more ambiguous situation (e.g. politically polarized) and almost certainly the people who were supposed to know better were telling them they were doing a good job. I'm saying forget the teenagers, and focus on the real bad guys.
Sorry, no. Are they adults or not? Are they considered mentally disabled? If they are adults they should be held to the same standards as adults. If they're given adult privileges then they are grown ups.
I get a little annoyed at this reasoning because I remember at one point when Donald Trump Jr. did something idiotic in 2017, they were acting like he was "just a dumb kid" as like a 37 year old man. I'm younger than that now, and if I committed a crime I'd still get charged as an adult.
Hey you gotta start being scum somewhere if you think tearing down democracy is a good idea or “teaching a lesson” to your fellow citizens through destruction. They earned all the titles coming their way. Scum is the nicest thing we can call them.
"No need for hyperbolics, no one will take you seriously."
There are some groups of people, many on this forum or even this thread, whose respect for my position would make me believe there is likely an error in my position.
> > scum people trying to destroy democracy and government services
> No need for hyperbolics, no one will take you seriously.
Everything but "scum" was just a statement of fact, though? I guess maybe people trying to wreck government services and subvert democracy might not qualify as "scum people" to everyone.
I disapprove of this kind of article. These useful rubes are not powerful masterminds.
Why go on a witch hunt to hold a 19 year old responsible, when meanwhile Mark “they trust me dumbfucks” Zuckerberg is left off the hook for his teenage improprieties?
You are assuming these people were just following procedure. This is not accurate. There is at least one case where data was taken and intended to be improperly used at a private company.
These people are more than useful rubes. They actively committed unethical (if not illegal) acts.
This does not waive Zuck of his crimes either. But all these DOGE perps need to serve life in prison without parole as a warning sign to any others who engage in such a brazen and unaccountable task. People want every one of these criminals to answer severely for their part in it. That includes all their financial assets being seized by the next incoming administration. I'd go further and seize all financial assets of their parents, siblings, children, et al. Those around them that allowed such criminality to be executed should suffer as well.
They actively violated the law under the guidance of someone that had no right or reason to be five miles within the government sphere. We can and should arrest every single one of them and work our way up the ladder to Musk.
I dunno, I feel like the kid who used ChatGPT to decide to cut funding to a program such that tens of thousands of people now die deserves some social criticism. People should experience shame when entering in to such a project.
A kid who breaks into a car to steal a backpack gets railroaded into prison. That's orders of magnitude less harmful to society than what these guys did.
34 comments
The actual report points to about 60-80 possible instances of doctors not putting in the maximum amount of effort to save a life over a period of 20-30 years.
Not exactly systemic like people parrot. Sorta like how people endlessly repeated "social credit score" despite most Chinese acknowledging it barely existed for a majority of the population.
"Since 2005 China's Deputy Health Minister Huang Jiefu acknowledged on several occasions that approximately 65% of organ transplants in China were sourced from executed prisoners.[33][34][35] In 2006 the World Medical Association demanded that China cease harvesting organs from prisoners, who are not deemed able to properly consent.[36]"
...
"Experts have also expressed concern that in addition to executed prisoners, non-death-row political prisoners and prisoners of conscience are also being used to supply the organ transplant industry.[39][40] Researchers, including ones affiliated with The Epoch Times, the International Coalition to End Transplant Abuse in China, and the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, point out that data from China between 2010 and 2018 may have been falsified or manipulated because of "contradictory, implausible, or anomalous data artefacts" and because they match a quadratic equation with model parsimony that is one to two orders of magnitude smoother than those of other nations."
65% would be tens of thousands...
* sorry "special operation"
> Some of those guys will almost certainly grow out of it.
We send teenagers to prison for less societal damage. They don't get an opportunity to "grow out of it". I don't know why these teenagers should get more benefit of the doubt.
For the benefit of those outside the US: when I was growing up, and we constantly had police officers talk to us in school as part of the ill-fated DARE "just say no" campaign, the next most common phrase we heard was "tried as an adult".
i.e., if you were 14 or older, you couldn't drink, vote, or even get a learner's permit to drive a motor vehicle, and you were probably flooded with all kinds of hormones making it even more more difficult to regulate yourself, but you'd be put in prison with adults rather than go to juvenile hall if you were ever convicted of a crime, and any felonies would stay on your record permanently, essentially ending any hope you'd have at a normal life.
While I have some sympathy for the youngest members of DOGE, they are actually old enough to be legal adults, and I would point out that their youthful naïveté and the "but they're just kids" response to any attempts at holding them accountable is precisely why they were chosen for their roles.
> We send teenagers to prison for less societal damage. They don't get an opportunity to "grow out of it".
Yeah, but in those cases there are literal laws against what they did, and usually the morality is much more stark (e.g. killing a guy).
Also, the "logic" of being harsh to immature person X so we have to be harsh to every immature person just doesn't fly.
> I don't know why these teenagers should get more benefit of the doubt.
Because this was a more ambiguous situation (e.g. politically polarized) and almost certainly the people who were supposed to know better were telling them they were doing a good job. I'm saying forget the teenagers, and focus on the real bad guys.
I get a little annoyed at this reasoning because I remember at one point when Donald Trump Jr. did something idiotic in 2017, they were acting like he was "just a dumb kid" as like a 37 year old man. I'm younger than that now, and if I committed a crime I'd still get charged as an adult.
> Hey you gotta start being scum somewhere
Can you tell me when it started? Because I don't think this is the first time I've seen these kinds of problematic comments from you.
You shouldn’t tell people they’re not allowed to be upset, because doing so is problematic behavior anywhere.
There are some groups of people, many on this forum or even this thread, whose respect for my position would make me believe there is likely an error in my position.
I dont use Google so not a public utility for me. Maybe a public cess pool operated by scum?
> > scum people trying to destroy democracy and government services
> No need for hyperbolics, no one will take you seriously.
Everything but "scum" was just a statement of fact, though? I guess maybe people trying to wreck government services and subvert democracy might not qualify as "scum people" to everyone.
Why go on a witch hunt to hold a 19 year old responsible, when meanwhile Mark “they trust me dumbfucks” Zuckerberg is left off the hook for his teenage improprieties?
These people are more than useful rubes. They actively committed unethical (if not illegal) acts.
I dunno, I feel like the kid who used ChatGPT to decide to cut funding to a program such that tens of thousands of people now die deserves some social criticism. People should experience shame when entering in to such a project.
A kid who breaks into a car to steal a backpack gets railroaded into prison. That's orders of magnitude less harmful to society than what these guys did.