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A Brief History of Fish Sauce (legalnomads.com)

by vinhnx 108 comments 234 points
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108 comments

[−] throwaway20148 25d ago
In the early 2000s, post-dotcom-crash I worked at small consultancy for the airlines industry that had a software wing. I think I made $11/hour slinging PHP code. They had sequestered the engineers, (half a dozen of us, all young) in the back of a large print shop (the consultancy specialized in manuals) and we had our own kitchen back there, so we sometimes cooked together.

One of my coworkers was married to a Laotian woman and as such married into a large Laotian community. One day we went to the Asian supermarket and we bought all the stuff to make green papaya salad and larb. He brought three specific things from home for this: a weird aluminum cauldron, a bamboo basket to put on it (to make sticky rice) and a repurposed instant coffee bottle full of the strangest looking sludge. It looked kind of like peering into a chewing tobacco spit bottle. This was a bottle of homemade padaek[1] and he said it was like liquid gold in the community he lived in. It was foul as hell to smell but we did a taste test of the papaya salad before and after mixing it in and sure enough it was so much better with the padaek. It was an eye opening experience and since then I've always had a fish sauce bottle in my fridge. I even use a little of it in things like spaghetti sauce.

Anyway if you have a chance to get your hands on a little homemade padaek, definitely do it. Would kill for some, myself. Also, share new foods with friends if they are open to it. I am very fond of that memory. I had never been exposed to those dishes before and even that small experience broadened my world in a simple, but meaningful way.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padaek

[−] kbutler 25d ago
Sounds like what they call "bla ra" in Thailand (Northeastern Thailand has a lot of Laotian influence). Thick/chunky, unlike the more refined "fish sauce" - "nam bla".

Lived in a house for a while with neighbors making it - slow fermenting pots of fish. Not a pleasant olfactory experience.

[−] jbgt 25d ago
I had a nice Thai Omelet once in a restaurant and then looked up the recipe. Now I always add a bit of fiah sauce into my eggs, with chopped garlic and some soy sauce and a bit of water so it gets fluffy in the hot oil. Never thought fish in omelet would work but it's quite tasty!
[−] fnoff 25d ago
If people put anchovy in their bolognese, I can imagine fish sauce is a great and easy substitute. Never thought of that, but will try next time it's on the menu :)
[−] rockostrich 24d ago
I usually have a tube of anchovy paste in the fridge for whenever I make Caesar salad, but in the rare times that I don't I just use fish sauce in the dressing instead and it works surprisingly well.
[−] dgacmu 24d ago
Ditto. I've mostly stopped using anchovies for everyday Caesars. The fish sauce trick is just too easy and tastes great.
[−] mikepurvis 25d ago
I put a little fish sauce in chili too; it's great for giving savoury things that nice umami kick.
[−] tnelsond4 25d ago
Yeah, my wife is Cambodian and she buys the Lao stuff because she knows people who make it without chemicals.

The Cambodian version is Prahok and apparently it's usually raw and you aren't supposed to eat it raw, but I ate it raw (it was pink colored) for a couple days before someone told me. Prahok sounds gross but the stinky flavor is really reminiscent of cheese.

[−] semi-extrinsic 25d ago
This stuff is great for anything savory. Just don't tell your kids what it is.

And don't let them smell the raw shrimp paste.

[−] ghaff 25d ago
When I was traveling to Raleigh NC semi-regularly I liked going to a really good Laotian restaurant there. One of my favorite places to eat (along with Beasley's for their fried chicken).
[−] js2 24d ago
Bida Manda?
[−] ghaff 24d ago
That's it. I would have had to look it up and I was lazy.
[−] throwaway20148 22d ago
Noted, thanks to you and the parent post for the info.
[−] throwaway31056 24d ago
RUDE JAM BROS FOR LYF. Just sayin'. Also, I'm humping sweaty moms.
[−] cindyllm 24d ago
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[−] wluu 25d ago
If anyone needs a Vege friendly fish sauce, here's one for Lao/Thai food https://www.veganlaofood.com/recipe/fish-sauce/

It's pretty simple to make.

[−] lobofta 25d ago
Thanks. It is too bad so few people think of fish as the sentient beings that they are.
[−] kulahan 25d ago
I don't think many people are confused on the sentience of fish... nor that telling people this would get them to stop eating fish anyways. It's a pretty important source of protein for much of the world.
[−] nunez 25d ago

> One such food historian, Sally Grainger, notes in her 2021 book The Story of Garum: Fermented Fish Sauce and Salted Fish in the Ancient World that despite discussions of Roman fish sauce in many publications, Roman fish sauce is not actually Roman at all: it’s Greek.

this seems to be a trope. Mark Kurlansky (who is cited later in this fantastic article!) wrote an excellent book called “Cheesecake” whose central plot line concerns a bakery trying to make Cato’s cheesecake, an ancient Roman cheesecake recipe that is often recognized as the “first” cheesecake for whom a recipe was published. Except the bakery/restaurant is Greek, and the owners, who are also Greeks, are convinced that the Romans stole this recipe from them.

As for the liquid gold itself: fish sauce is unbelievable. Elevates dishes as much as its smell nauseates. I was shocked to learn that fish sauce is legitimate just fish and salt!

[−] dherman 25d ago
My high school Latin classmates and I made garum and left it to ferment in my back yard for a month. Young and foolish as we were, we stored it in a plastic Tupperware container. The day I brought it back to school for the class tasting, I had it sitting on a stack of piano books in the passenger seat of my car.

Weeks later, the rotted fish stench just wouldn't fade from my book of Beethoven sonatas. I ended up throwing it away.

[−] tananan 26d ago
Thanks for sharing. It is especially interesting to hear the factors that contributed to the decline of fish sauce use in the west.

One thing I am “stealing” from SEA is fish sauce in scrambled eggs. Feels almost like a cheat code.

[−] vinhnx 25d ago
Oh absolutely and you're welcome! Btw, fish sauce in scrambled eggs over rice is one of the simplest, most satisfying meals you'll find across Southeast Asia, in my country Vietnam especially. It's my favorite meal also.
[−] dbcooper 25d ago
Worcestershire Sauce (fermented anchovy base) with eggs is a classic combination for a reason.
[−] AdieuToLogic 25d ago

> One thing I am “stealing” from SEA is fish sauce in scrambled eggs. Feels almost like a cheat code.

A bit of stone ground mustard added to scrambled eggs is another culinary delight.

[−] markdown 25d ago
What if my mustard is made without stones. Will it still work?
[−] AdieuToLogic 25d ago

> What if my mustard is made without stones. Will it still work?

It depends on your risk tolerance to try I suppose. It will either be a delicious variant or create a space-time singularity dooming us all...

:-D

[−] stevenwoo 25d ago
ICYMI - This is an attempt to mimic a secret Vietnamese American restaurant recipe but interesting use of fish sauce with spaghetti https://www.tasteofhome.com/article/san-francisco-style-viet...
[−] stackghost 25d ago
Put it in tomato sauce for pasta. Just a tablespoon or so.
[−] stackghost 25d ago
Okay I know we're not supposed to complain about downvotes but c'mon it's actually delicious, doesn't taste like fish, and just adds umami. Don't knock it until you try it!
[−] dfxm12 25d ago
I'm just down voting a meaningless comment. 1T fish sauce + an unknown amount of tomato sauce could taste like anything from fish sauce to tomato sauce.
[−] jandrewrogers 25d ago
I didn’t downvote you but fish sauce does taste strongly like rancid fish to some people, even in trace quantities. Nothing about that flavor profile is delicious. There is nothing stealthy about it either if you are one of those people; you can immediately detect that disgusting note on the first bite.

I love anchovies and use a lot of them in many of the dishes I cook (including tomato sauce). Fish sauce ruins everything it touches for me. It isn’t lack of exposure either; I lived on Vietnamese home-cooking for many years. I eat a lot of weird and pungent things but I have no context for why anyone would want to put that fish sauce in their food. Also, some types of fish sauce from around the world don’t have this effect for whatever reason.

I’m pretty sure from observation that it is gene-linked thing, like the cilantro sensitivity. While rare, even some Vietnamese people seem to fall into this set and it is part of their cuisine.

[−] ghaff 25d ago
At least in the US, fish in general is somewhat polarizing and, probably especially, strong tasting fish like anchovies, fish sauce, etc. Just not something probably the majority of people grew up with.
[−] kulahan 25d ago
lime juice with the fish sauce works surprisingly well (in scrambled eggs, I mean)
[−] kccqzy 25d ago
I bought a bottle of Vietnamese fish sauce (Red Boat brand, the most recommended brand) and added a teaspoon to some pea leaves. I loved the resulting flavor, but my partner did not and complained that it had too much of a fishy smell. A lot of cooking techniques actually seek to remove this fishy smell even when cooking fish, so it was not welcome to add this to something that didn’t contain fish in the first place. It’s certainly not a flavor everyone would like.
[−] skipkey 25d ago
So the West still does have a fish sauce in common use, although one that's not nearly as strong as the eastern variants. Worcestershire sauce was an attempt to recreate an Indian fish sauce, and to this day contains anchovies.
[−] comrade1234 25d ago
Colatura di Alici is fish sauce made from anchovies in the same Roman town since the Roman republic. It was used by everyone on everything and also traveled with soldiers across Europe during the empire. It's nice - it tastes "softer" than the Asian fish sauces.

I also buy from Italians at a farmers market here in Switzerland rotten anchovies packed in salt and ground peppercorns. Stinks but when you add one to pasta sauce you're making the smell disappears and tons of glutamates are added.

[−] legalnomads 12d ago
Thank you for sharing my piece!
[−] dbcooper 25d ago
Interesting video on the history of Worcestershire Sauce (fermented anchovy base):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q5QhGnEKUM

Addendum: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvF2m57_Usg

[−] nunez 25d ago

> One such food historian, Sally Grainger, notes in her 2021 book The Story of Garum: Fermented Fish Sauce and Salted Fish in the Ancient World that despite discussions of Roman fish sauce in many publications, Roman fish sauce is not actually Roman at all: it’s Greek.

this seems to be a trope. Mark Kurlansky (who is cited later in this fantastic article!) wrote an excellent book called “Cheesecake” whose central plot line concerns a bakery trying to make Cato’s cheesecake, a cheesecake often recognized as the “first” cheesecake for whom a recipe was published. Except the bakery/restaurant is Greek, and the owners, who are also Greeks, are convinced that the Romans stole this recipe from them.

As for the liquid gold itself: fish sauce is unbelievable. Elevates dishes as much as its smell nauseates. I was shocked to learn that fish sauce is legitimate just fish and salt!

[−] youngprogrammer 25d ago
Fish sauce is delicious but had to stop using it since it's high in histamine (gives me a stuffy nose) and potentially carcinogenic due to its high levels of nitrosamines
[−] cs02rm0 25d ago
A couple of years ago I planned a road trip I've yet to take, from where I live in Worcestershire, passing through Malaga where they have a glass pyramid in front of a Roman theatre that shows the basins that were used for making garum.

Worcestershire sauce is a descendent of garum.

[−] rcakebread 25d ago
I'm just here to thank Kenji for making me try fish sauce.
[−] robocat 25d ago
I vividly remember the reek of a fish sauce factory in Vietnam.

I highly recommend avoiding going anywhere near them.

[−] rawgabbit 25d ago
I can only eat it when used as a dipping sauce for Bánh Xèo https://www.bonappetit.com/story/banh-xeo-vietnamese-sizzlin...
[−] IamTC 25d ago
Try fish sauce with pasta sauces. Next level.
[−] Magi604 25d ago
Wow, Legalnomads! Happy to see her pop up here. Way back in the day when I used to backpack and freelance she had a very big online presence in the internet hustler community. I just read through her recent history and I'm sad for her recent health issues, but glad she's still pushing through.
[−] ggm 25d ago
I wish somebody would do this for "Smen" from North Africa, and trace it's lineage and relationship.

I'm told if you want a sense of it, add knobs of soft blue cheese to your cuscous.

[−] saysjonathan 25d ago
Homemade garum is a fun kitchen experiment, if you have the equipment and patience. Heat + protease + protein substrate is really all you need.
[−] zachdotai 21d ago
Why did I read this title and immediately think Ketchup?
[−] tcper 25d ago
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