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MAGA Is Winning Its War Against U.S. Science (paulkrugman.substack.com)

by devonnull 43 comments 101 points
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43 comments

[−] MrGilbert 25d ago
I cannot help but wonder how many decades it will take the U.S. to recover from the damage that the current administration is causing, both economically and in trust on a global scale. While in no way comparable, as a German, that topic feels familiar non the less - and to this day, it's a long and rocky road.
[−] burnt-resistor 25d ago
Much of the damage is irreparable. Organizations that no longer exist have lost workers, other stakeholders, resources, and trust permanently.. and in cases like USAID and healthcare, people have suffered permanent injuries or died.

These clueless assholes don't care about or understand the implications of the damage they've caused... they're gangs of criminals rapists and pillagers scorching the earth and leaving chaos and destruction in their wake.

[−] jalapenoj 24d ago
[flagged]
[−] PigeonHolePncpl 25d ago
Economically? No idea.

Global trust? I'd give it 20-40 years.

[−] surgical_fire 25d ago
That presumes a sharp correction in the direction the US is heading, whatever it is.

Is that a given?

[−] bediger4000 25d ago
No. Sure, MAGA Republicans are only 25-30% of the population, but most of the people share at least some beliefs that would hold the entire nation back. There's widespread economic illiteracy, that leads to people generally favoring monopolies, and not believing in economy of scale in some circumstances. It's an article of faith that the press has a liberal bias. Lots of people distrust elections. There are lots of authoritarians, which is the fertile ground that let Trump take power in the first place.
[−] tim333 25d ago
Maybe they could elect someone normal next time around?
[−] rolph 25d ago
the big problem we have is we really dont nominate candidates publicly, there is a process the party goes through vetting nominees.

when the public voting occurs there is a line up of some familiar and some a case of who is that from where?

recently it has been, "really? is that the best candidate that party has to proffer? they both did it, now what?"

[−] M95D 25d ago
No, that's not a/the problem. You had the chance to vote independent - Bernie. You didn't.
[−] jfengel 23d ago
He did have to leave his independent status and join the Democratic party in order to participate in the primaries. But that was just a formality; he filled out a form.

Some people did vote for him. Just nowhere near a majority. A lot of people resented that, and stayed home rather than vote for the primary winner. So she lost, and the rest is very literally history.

[−] jfengel 23d ago
Outsiders can and do win in the primaries. Trump is the most prominent example. He was not a familiar regular, and nobody in the party leadership wanted him.

He won the primary, and went on to win the Presidency. The party leadership came around to support him, and the new leadership is vetted by him rather than the other way around.

[−] bestouff 25d ago
I'm not even sure the Nazi regime was that much anti-science.
[−] jfengel 23d ago
They kinda were. Both relativity and quantum mechanics were dubbed "Jewish science", which made it a lot harder for them to progress in those fields.
[−] karmakurtisaani 25d ago
A lot of great scientists left Europe because of them tho.
[−] burnt-resistor 25d ago
True. And they forced some scientists to work for them to build terror and WMDs. This regime doesn't even want technological supremacy in many other domains like drones and counter-drones except maybe hypersonic missiles and unworkable pocket battleships.
[−] rexpop 24d ago
The fascist "suicidal state" fundamentally rejects reason, rationality, and civil progress.
[−] bryanlarsen 25d ago
The US got to its preeminent position because the rest of the world screwed things up badly, and the US played a key role in rescuing it. Hopefully we never again see a global conflict on the scale of WW2, so hopefully the US never again is in a position to gain the rewards from rescuing the world.
[−] red-iron-pine 24d ago
the US got it it's preeminent position because it was a resource and manufacturing powerhouse that was unrivaled in the world at the time. it was already overtaking the aging British and French empires when the WW's happened, and both of those wars gutted everything.

it'd be like if WW3 happened now and every other major country got nuked except China.

[−] jaybrendansmith 25d ago
Again, I don't understand why this post is flagged. Don't hackers care about science? Isn't this newsworthy?
[−] andretti1977 25d ago
… “Ignorance is strength” might was well be an official MAGA motto…
[−] jruohonen 25d ago
From the liked NBER study:

"Between 58 and 68 percent of citations to Chinese publications come from other Chinese publications, even for breakthrough work. This contrasts sharply with other regions, where cross-border citation rates are substantially higher."

https://www.nber.org/digest?page=1&perPage=50

[−] throwworhtthrow 25d ago
The article charts a Nature survey that shows "percent trusting the scientific community" was sub-50% for both D's and R's from 1985-2015. That's more interesting and concerning to me than the relatively recent divergence in partisian opinion. I'd wager we return to that status quo within 10 years, but even that state seems dire.
[−] spwa4 25d ago
WOW. EU paper authorship is also back to 1980 levels. But still. I mean, I get that this is still better than the US, but wtf.

I wish Krugman had included that total papers has gone up spectacularly, and would not hide the absolute numbers. Plus I don't like that he's not being very clear on the distinction of social vs "hard" (positivist) sciences.

But wtf.

[−] jmclnx 25d ago
China is increasing funding, US is cutting funding so this will only help China.
[−] readthenotes1 25d ago
How is this affecting the replicability crisis?
[−] rolph 25d ago
not according to this article. the attempt is to defund research, gov can make money out of thin air to an extent, but not indefinately, and it has to be paid for in real terms.

private interests have greater actual holdings than gov.

"they" are not winning, they are chasing a major provider of high standard of living, right out the door.

[−] gverrilla 25d ago
Absolutely deleting progress.
[−] wileydragonfly 25d ago
NIH grant funding is still down about 35% and they’re lying about it. They’re not updating Reporter fully so the director has been able to obfuscate it. Graduate programs are reducing admissions and I imagine fewer potential scientists are interested in the PhD path given “current situation.” So I imagine it’s going to take several “good” years to undo what’s been done.
[−] rootusrootus 25d ago
As is so typical in politics, whether it is countries, parties, or legislation, irony dominates the naming. Democratic People's Republic of Korea, PATRIOT act, MAGA, the list goes on.
[−] nis0s 25d ago
I hate that it happened because of a political reason, and many topics affected were unnecessarily targeted, but it’s 1000% true that many labs were overfunded, and accumulated resources which were essentially spent on ego bullshit. There need to be more cuts and selective funding of research labs, in general. Sadly, funding R1 does not guarantee that you’re going to get anything meaningful from that research as a non-trivial number of PIs just used excessive funding to bloat up their numbers to appear politically important, like middle managers at FAANG. So, essentially creating an adult daycare with no regards to output or impact. This needs to stop, and spending needs to be allocated responsibly. Lab impact needs to be assessed on regular (2-yr seems reasonable) basis, and then funding needs to be diverted to new or better players.